Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

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anotherscott
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by anotherscott » Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:48 pm

Piano is the hardest thing to get sounding good. For something with moderate price and size for home/studio use, I'd look at JBL 305P MkII.
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by vertig0spin » Fri Mar 29, 2019 3:29 am

anotherscott wrote:
Sat Mar 23, 2019 4:48 pm
Piano is the hardest thing to get sounding good. For something with moderate price and size for home/studio use, I'd look at JBL 305P MkII.
I've done a bit of research. The JBL LSR308's seem like they would be even better, and also the Yamaha HS8's. Both are getting positive reviews and lots of recommendations. Do you own the 305P MkII's?
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by anotherscott » Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:07 pm

I own the earlier version of the 305. But I use them for mixing rather than for playing.

Interesting take on the 5" vs 8" woofer versions at harmonycentral.com/expert-reviews/jbl-3-series
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by vertig0spin » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:41 pm

I found THE perfect speakers for making pianos sound realistic on the Montage!

I went to the music store after researching various other speakers, including on this forum, and tried out the Yamaha HS7's & HS8's.
First I noticed they were better than the Sony GTK-XB5 speakers that I had, but they weren't awesome and didn't make the pianos sound quite as real as I hoped they would. There was definitely a honky kind of sound to them and a harshness as well. But I was testing them from a Montage 8 and found one of the frequencies that were a bit hot (2.8kHz). Taking that down a bit helped.
Then I tried speakers almost half the price that were the store's own brand (Yorkville). They actually sounded a bit better in the high & mid range, but the bass was front loaded and I couldn't seem to get it under control without making the pianos sound thin.

I was avoiding the Adam Audio A7X's because I just knew they would sound great, better than the Yamaha's & spoil me rotten. And they are definitely out of my price range (twice the price of the Yamaha's), but the guy insisted on showing the difference between the Adam's, Yorkvilles and Yamaha's.
The Adam's were unbelievably awesome and more than what I expected. All the pianos sounded like I was actually playing an acoustic CFX grand if I closed my eyes. Perfectly balanced, no harsh tones, no subtle honky frequencies, etc.

They said that if I bought the Yamaha's or Yorkville's and couldn't get them to sound right in my studio room, that I can just return them within 30 days. So I bought the Yamaha HS8's.
After about 8+ hours of finding the bad frequencies and adjusting for my room, I got the Yamaha's sounding fairly good. Here are the settings that did the trick on the master eq:
+7 / 125 Hz
-9 / 315 Hz / 6.9 Q
-1 / 2.8 kHz / 2.9 Q
-2 / 7.0 kHz / 2.8 Q

I tried these settings on all the various pianos and they vastly improved the sound of the Yamaha HS8's. So for anyone out there that has Yamaha HS series and wants to tweak their piano's, maybe try these settings. I used my Roland earphones (which sound almost as good as the Adam Audio A7X's) for reference, and was surprised that 315 Hz was so pronounced on the pianos through the Yamaha speakers, especially noticeable on the E note up from the middle C note. Through the earphones that and every other notes sounded super awesome, almost exactly as if playing an actual acoustic grand. Taking 315 up when through the Yamaha HS8's made it so much worse, so taking it down by -9 was much closer to the earphones. I was also surprised that the 2.8 kHz didn't need to come down even more than -1 because that was one of the main honky harsh frequencies that I was hearing both at the store and at home. Depending on your room of course, you may need to take it down even more or none at all...

Anyway, in the end I was definitely spoiled by hearing the Adam A7X's. I can't un-hear them and I can't forget the experience of sitting at an actual acoustic grand CFX piano with my eyes closed, only to open them and see a Montage and Adam speakers in front of me! I have boxed up the Yamaha HS8's and am returning them on Monday. If I had not heard the Adam's and if piano wasn't as important to me as it is, I would have been quite happy with the Yamaha HS8's, so I would never say they are terrible speakers. But having experienced super awesome speakers for pianos, I am going to put that $1000 aside and hopefully over the next several years, be able to save another $1000 to get the Adams.
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by anotherscott » Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:47 pm

Yorkville makes good stuff, and they are not a store brand.

I'll have to check out the Adams some time. I'd be curious to hear what you think if you ever have the opportunity to try the JBLs.
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:04 pm

anotherscott wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:47 pm
Yorkville makes good stuff, and they are not a store brand.

I'll have to check out the Adams some time. I'd be curious to hear what you think if you ever have the opportunity to try the JBLs.
The guy at the store said that it's not public knowledge, but is well known to those who work at their music store chain that their company owns Yorkville. So he referred to it as their store's brand, and that is why they can sell them at such a reduced price compared to the Yamaha's.

I didn't listen to any other sounds through the Adams except for just the pianos on the Montage 8, so I can only speak for how pianos sound through them. They weren't even in a good location and sounded so freaking awesome. They were up high almost touching the ceiling.
IMHO, to my ears they are far superior to the Yamaha HS7's & HS8's for piano sounds!

I was surprised that the Yorkville sounded better than the Yamaha's in the High and Mid ranges. I probably would have been better to buy them and try to get the bass under control. It could have been just a matter of room placement and adjusting the bass cutoff on the back of the speakers, as well as a bit of EQ'ing on the Montage, but in the end they too were no where near as good as the Adam's, which were roughly 3 times the price of the Yorkville's. I think in most cases when it comes to speakers, you get what you pay for...
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by anotherscott » Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:22 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:04 pm
The guy at the store said that it's not public knowledge, but is well known to those who work at their music store chain that their company owns Yorkville. So he referred to it as their store's brand.
Ah. I think another example of that kind of arrangement would be Samson, which is owned by Sam Ash (major U.S. music store chain), but whose products are also independent of the store chain and available through other channels. As opposed to something like Williams digital pianos, which are a house brand for Guitar Center and, AFAIK, not available outside of GC or their affiliated companies. I think the former is a case of companies actually developing their own products, while the latter is a seller putting their name on something that has been designed and made for them by some other company, which is what I would typically think of as a "house brand" or "store brand." But maybe the lines are fuzzy.
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by Kurzweil » Wed May 22, 2019 12:49 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Sun Apr 07, 2019 8:41 pm
I bought the Yamaha HS8's.
After about 8+ hours of finding the bad frequencies and adjusting for my room, I got the Yamaha's sounding fairly good. Here are the settings that did the trick on the master eq:
+7 / 125 Hz
-9 / 315 Hz / 6.9 Q
-1 / 2.8 kHz / 2.9 Q
-2 / 7.0 kHz / 2.8 Q
I am actually looking at a Montage with HS8s and thus found this of interest. I have one concern. I have assumed that the frequency adjustments are made in the keyboard itself rather than some external equalizer. If I am mistaken about that, disregard from this point on. The concern is this: Having made these adjustments, does this affect the entire keyboard output? That is, both main and auxiliary outputs. If it can be done on only the Aux outputs, then I see it working just fine for me but I would not want recordings made with the entire synth EQ'd for a particular set of monitor speakers. I gig with such keyboards also and would not want to have to make regular changes to the EQ depending upon whether I am home or "out". Thanks.
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Re: Montage8 vs Kronos 88 - The Decision

Unread post by vertig0spin » Wed May 22, 2019 4:30 pm

Kurzweil wrote:
Wed May 22, 2019 12:49 pm
I am actually looking at a Montage with HS8s and thus found this of interest. I have one concern. I have assumed that the frequency adjustments are made in the keyboard itself rather than some external equalizer. If I am mistaken about that, disregard from this point on. The concern is this: Having made these adjustments, does this affect the entire keyboard output? That is, both main and auxiliary outputs. If it can be done on only the Aux outputs, then I see it working just fine for me but I would not want recordings made with the entire synth EQ'd for a particular set of monitor speakers. I gig with such keyboards also and would not want to have to make regular changes to the EQ depending upon whether I am home or "out". Thanks.
I made the EQ modifications on the Montage Master EQ for the particular Performance (no external EQ). I would likely have needed to change it on all the various piano Performances. It may affect both the Main an Aux outputs; however I have not yet used the Aux outputs and so I'm not certain of what effects (especially Master effects) will affect the Aux outputs...maybe the Master EQ doesn't..!?
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