What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Welcome to the new era from the company that brought you the DX and the Motif. Montage sets the next milestone with sophisticated dynamic control, massive sound creation and streamlined workflow.

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AJay
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by AJay » Thu Mar 10, 2016 6:57 pm

Derek wrote:
Or 9 engines in an integrated package for £300 each. :D

Montage is two engines for £1100 each on a '61

Possibly an unfair comparison.....
Not an apples vs apples comparison really. The 2 engines in Montage are in hardware not software, you'll notice this when you switch it on :mrgreen:, they're also capable of a wide variety of sounds each, not geared to reproducing piano or organs.

Kronos only has 9 engines @£300 each if the user likes them all. For me the piano, epiano, organ and string engines have zero value and I'd have to do the Kronos equivalent of del piano*.*, del organ*.* etc, as the samples of those take up valuable storage space. In fact I'd have to bin the entire supplied waveset. Admittedly at least that can be done on the Kronos but same goes for PC too (or rather just install users own choice).

This is my number one criticism of pcm synths for the last 20+ years. I was hoping Montage had changed that but seems not. :(
Yamaha: SY85, TG500, A3000, PSR48, PSS780
Kawai: K4
Ensoniq: SQ2

Long Gone: Far too much gear from the 80's and 90's that went out the door for £££! Moved to soft synth city instead.
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Saul » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:12 pm

I think many of us have very different needs and there is usually something out there to fill those needs, or as close as possible.

For me the two synth engines in the the Montage would be plenty. It covers all I would need and the all round features fit pretty well with the way I use keyboards.

Thing is, right now I can get better value for money out of a controller keyboard and software. I have Pianoteq for acoustics, harp and some other odd sounds, Native Instruments Kontakt for sample libraries...just been playing the Roland D50 and Yamaha S90 ;) and then I have a whole range of soft synths such as Omnisphere and FM8 so, all i need now is a decent keyboard controller and I am sorted..and I won't have spent over 2 grand in the process ;)

Perhaps a used Montage further down the line but for now, I like it but it's out of reach.
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by zpink » Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:49 pm

I wonder if Yamaha are a bit unlucky with the timing when it comes to the advertised price?
Most synths seems to be very expensive here in the UK at the moment, I guess due to a somewhat weaker pound?

The Electribe went up from around 280 to 355, which put me off from getting one! :roll:

Software will always be the most bang for your bucks, but you'll lose out on the lights and knobs. ;-)
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Saul » Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:21 pm

They did mention the exchange rate last week and how it had bumped the price up. That may indeed put people off buying right now. Bad timing indeed!
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by AJay » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:24 pm

The price doesn't actually seem that bad when taking inflation into consideration. Montage 6 is about the list price of the SY85 in 1992 dosh. The problem though, as mentioned above, is that these £2000+ devices look pricey against the PC which makes it more and more difficult to part with the wonga. :neutral:
Yamaha: SY85, TG500, A3000, PSR48, PSS780
Kawai: K4
Ensoniq: SQ2

Long Gone: Far too much gear from the 80's and 90's that went out the door for £££! Moved to soft synth city instead.
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Derek » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:38 pm

AJay wrote:
Derek wrote:That's where the Kronos approach is so much better. Uncompressed samples streamed from an SSD, with only the necessary preload in RAM, and you can of course add as many samples as you have disk space (or add another disk if you run out).
Not really no, not for me anyway. Kronos takes 2+ mins to boot, with additional time taken for user sample loading on top of that. Any modern PC can boot and be running a users choice of several realtime polyphonic softsynths far quicker, so there's not much need for samples at all then, but streaming is still available anyway. It would be good if it powered up near instantly or even booted in say 10secs or so but it just doesn't due to it being a PC internally. Anyway, for my purposes sample streaming is of no use whatsoever, on any kind of system.

Motif XF is better as once it's booted up the samples are ready to go as they don't need to be loaded at all. However, it's still disappointing as it has the synth engine in hardware and the onboard/user waves in non-vol mem, then they ruin it by having the host system take circa 45secs to boot, which again is up against the PC running softsynths. The only time it would be faster is if the PC had to load a few GB of samples into a softsampler. MoXF still has the upper hand over a computer in that respect, although not by so much these days.

For users who want large multisampled emulations of specific sounds, where they're always changing them, then a computer based system is obviously better, whether it be PC/MAC or Kronos etc.
The boot time doesn't bother me, and it's less than two minutes even with sample pre-load. You haven't finished cabling before it's ready (keep it UPS powered and you'll be fine on a gig). And other synths can take just as long. My Motif rack takes a s long with two PLG cards in, which it must load data in, as did my A4000 when loading samples.
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Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Derek » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:44 pm

AJay wrote:
Derek wrote:
Or 9 engines in an integrated package for £300 each. :D

Montage is two engines for £1100 each on a '61

Possibly an unfair comparison.....
Not an apples vs apples comparison really. The 2 engines in Montage are in hardware not software, you'll notice this when you switch it on :mrgreen:, they're also capable of a wide variety of sounds each, not geared to reproducing piano or organs.

Kronos only has 9 engines @£300 each if the user likes them all. For me the piano, epiano, organ and string engines have zero value and I'd have to do the Kronos equivalent of del piano*.*, del organ*.* etc, as the samples of those take up valuable storage space. In fact I'd have to bin the entire supplied waveset. Admittedly at least that can be done on the Kronos but same goes for PC too (or rather just install users own choice).

This is my number one criticism of pcm synths for the last 20+ years. I was hoping Montage had changed that but seems not. :(
Each to his own of course. :D I have a use for all of the sound engines depending on the music I am doing.

BTW, del organ*.* would not work as there are no samples in the CX3 engine. It's all modelled.

But the point is you don't need to bin the waveset if you dont like it. You simply load your own. You could of course bin all the waves if you wanted to, but if you have an SSD to fill, there is not much point.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:17 pm

Not sure if this has already been posted, or if this is the best thread to post it in, but Yamaha is coming out with a 3-part set of articles about (or including) the MONTAGE:

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=102
Michael Rideout
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Saul » Fri Mar 11, 2016 9:32 pm

SeaGtGruff wrote:Not sure if this has already been posted, or if this is the best thread to post it in, but Yamaha is coming out with a 3-part set of articles about (or including) the MONTAGE:

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?optio ... Itemid=102
Thanks for the link. Well worth a read although probably the next article in the series will be of more interest as it explores the transition from Motif XF to Montage.
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Sat Mar 12, 2016 2:43 am

Yes, I found the first part to be much "lighter" than I was hoping for, so I'm hoping the next two parts will be lengthier and meatier. :)
Michael Rideout
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Derek » Sat Mar 12, 2016 9:57 am

Personally, I think they are writing a little bit of a distorted view of history to suit their marketing
With the MOTIF XS and XF, plug-in board technology evolved into virtual instruments included within Cubase AI
Err, NO! 8O . PlugIn Technology was dropped due to a combination of a) there not being much demand (as most people were happy with ROMPLERs) and b) a half assed implementation made the PLG concept very fiddly to use.

Perhaps I blinked and missed it, but I have not seen an equivalent of AN and VL modelling included within Cubase AI.
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Derek Cook

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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Derek » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:05 am

The next one is up now, but TBH it does not really say much

https://yamahasynth.com/index.php?optio ... tomontage2
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Derek Cook

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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Saul » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:05 am

Also might have been that "most" people could not afford the extra plug in cards and had to wait until they hit the used market?
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Saul » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:11 am

Your right, doesn't tell us anything at all really.

I smiled when I read this :
MONTAGE still utilizes the same action that our artists and musicians love and have commented on from the MOTIF XS and XF: FSX on the MONTAGE6 and 7 and Balanced Hammer (BH) on the MONTAGE8. These remained the same because time and time again our artists and customers have commented on how much they love the FEEL of the MOTIF
As someone who is definitely a bit of an old cynic I read that more as "If we use the same keybed as in the Motif we save a fortune developing a new one and hence increase the bottom line" :)
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Re: What questions would you want answered about Montage?

Unread post by Derek » Sat Mar 12, 2016 10:24 am

Saul wrote:Your right, doesn't tell us anything at all really.

I smiled when I read this :
MONTAGE still utilizes the same action that our artists and musicians love and have commented on from the MOTIF XS and XF: FSX on the MONTAGE6 and 7 and Balanced Hammer (BH) on the MONTAGE8. These remained the same because time and time again our artists and customers have commented on how much they love the FEEL of the MOTIF
As someone who is definitely a bit of an old cynic I read that more as "If we use the same keybed as in the Motif we save a fortune developing a new one and hence increase the bottom line" :)
Yes, indeed! ;)
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
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