Montage - how's the sound...?

Welcome to the new era from the company that brought you the DX and the Motif. Montage sets the next milestone with sophisticated dynamic control, massive sound creation and streamlined workflow.

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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by EXer » Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:17 pm

pologuy wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:56 pm
These videos of the Montage sound very nice...
Thiago Gomez is an excellent demonstrator. Any keyboard he plays sounds fantastic. I wish I had his chops.

Here is a demo of the EX5 by him :



Please note that I do *not* mean an EX5 needs a talented player like Thiago Gomez to sound fantastic (the old lady still holds up well) :mrgreen:
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Thu Nov 02, 2017 6:43 pm

EXer, Thiago Gomez is indeed great. He's one of the best demonstrators today along with Katsunori Ujiie.

Polo Guy, ofcourse they are! the Montage has some of the best sound engineering ever done in a synth. It has the entire history of the Motif series, with better sound (better converters) and tons of new material. the greatest minds worked on the sound design.

It's a true HQ synth and a hi-fi rompler on steroids of the 21st century, and not Korg's alternative for Kontakt.

I can understand why judging on the EDM demos posted when the Montage was released, people would think its cold and lifeless.
but don't forget, no one said it on the XF before, and the entire XF is there. It is 7 times the XF.

AMAZING sounds. I sold the Kronos for it. (I'm satisfied with the Triton + MOSS board).

People think that "engine count" counts. but trust me, today's AWM2 programming sounds as good as any synth lead or bass in the AN series. this is just pure nitpicking if you ask me. the SOUND matters and Montage has that in spades...
cold and lifeless... this is some kind of a joke or what. I'm not surprised as the internet is filled with trolls and clowns, fanboys who will say anything to hurt whatever doesn't fit their agenda.

The Montage comes with more than 2000 preset sounds, which, trust me, more than 70% are perfectly usable and more than 50% are better than anything else.

Other than that, it has a huge USER area of 9 x 640 performances. It's endless.

I just love everything about it. and all those demos I posted earlier, they will not sound differently from what you'll get when you'll get yours! your playing may vary though. :)
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:32 pm

EXer wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:17 pm
pologuy wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:56 pm
These videos of the Montage sound very nice...
Thiago Gomez is an excellent demonstrator. Any keyboard he plays sounds fantastic. I wish I had his chops.

Here is a demo of the EX5 by him :



Please note that I do *not* mean an EX5 needs a talented player like Thiago Gomez to sound fantastic (the old lady still holds up well) :mrgreen:
The EX5 remains amazing, The EX5 in the hands of such talent takes no prisoners! :mrgreen: and will give most modern boards a run for their money. It's a bit sad when I recognise most of the presets! ;)

The Shakuhachi VL patch at 19:45 remains one of my favourite presets (even better with a wind controller driving it). And the patch at 20:45 is one of my favorurite FDSP sounds (name currently escapes me), but I have used that so many times. It's quite late in the P2 preset bank and (as can be head) just before the drums. FDSP is one the EX5's secret weapons that also gives it the realistic EP and guitar sounds you hear earlier on. I've had several people approach me re my sale of my EX5s thinking I am mad to be selling them, but I can safely reply that I am not quite that mad, and that their sale was not before I acquired an EX5R to keep these awesome sounds. :)
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:38 pm

pologuy wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:56 pm
As an ode to Monte... :)

These videos of the Montage sound very nice...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6k3QSTCQRk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MN6F1sf7214

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjBaxS8qChA
The first one is the one I sat through as part of making the decision to make that 300 mile round trip to audition one in the flesh.
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Saul » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:16 pm

Interesting little debate/discussion here but you know when people say a keyboard sounds cold and lifeless don't take it as a personal insult. They are talking about a keyboard not YOU. If you love the sound of the Montage that's great but there will be plenty who don't. That doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right it just means your perceptions are different.

As I have written about quite extensively I was not overly impressed with Montage when I first played it. Yes it was good but I had reservations as to whether it was three grands worth of "good"

Yamaha then loaned me the Montage 7 for a few weeks and apart from a few gripes about the screen and the price I couldn't really fault it. Still not sure about the pianos but, I have always preferred Korg and to some extent Roland in that respect. It's a personal choice and of course you can always supplement the on board pianos so no real concerns there.

It takes time to become accustomed to a keyboard. I started out hating the idea of the reface series but having played them for a few weeks they won me over. Quality keys on a mini key keyboard? surely not? but yes..they do indeed have wonderful little keybeds.

Likewise with Montage, I was at first sceptical, then indifferent and now I think it's a wonderful bit of kit. Would I buy one? No. It's too expensive for me and I can get a much more powerful package from a Native Instrument S series and Komplete 11. BUT, that slightly muddies the waters because we are comparing apples with oranges. Montage is a true 'Performance Synth' sleek and well designed for that purpose. Whilst you "could" go down performance mode route with the S Series they are really more at home in the studio, a setting in which they excel!

So getting back to "Cold and Lifeless"? For me that's an emphatic NO. Not in my opinion. Montage sounds as warm, organic and lush as you could want. It's good "out of the box" but so much better once you start making it your own synth and that is exactly what Yamaha had in mind when they designed it.

If your too far away to demo it then I would take a chance and order from a company that gives you a no quibble 30 day return. That is, not just for faulty products but also if you just happen to change your mind. That way you effectively get the hands-on demo in your own living room/studio. If it's not for you then just return it...but I seriously don't think you will want to do that ;)

As an aside let's keep all conversations on this forum friendly. This is not yamahsynth.com and we don't ever flame people for asking a question. Like I said, don't take the question personally.
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:26 pm

I appreciate what you're all saying and still, reverting to my original reply, I don't see anything wrong with it. I said that I don't understand the nature of the question when there are so many demos that clearly show only the opposite. not sure whether or not anything ever happened here in the past that was so harsh that puts you guys immediately in a defensive overprotective position.
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Saul » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:50 pm

Monte, it's easy to misinterpret things in written form. I am sure you didn't intend any offence.

I would say on the whole yes we are pretty defensive on this forum but that is why it has remained a friendly place to be over the past 15 years. The way we do things is not to everyone's liking but we like it and it works for us. There are plenty of other forums out there where people are free to say what they want without regard to offending anyone and that is fine for them, it's just not our way.
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:59 pm

Gotcha!
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by pologuy » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:08 am

Saul wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 11:16 pm
Likewise with Montage, I was at first sceptical, then indifferent and now I think it's a wonderful bit of kit. Would I buy one? No. It's too expensive for me and I can get a much more powerful package from a Native Instrument S series and Komplete 11. BUT, that slightly muddies the waters because we are comparing apples with oranges. Montage is a true 'Performance Synth' sleek and well designed for that purpose. Whilst you "could" go down performance mode route with the S Series they are really more at home in the studio, a setting in which they excel!
Oh no you didn't! lol

Way to add another bit of kit into the mix ;)

Do you think that the S88/Komplete 11 is comparable to the Montage 8 - if you were just going to use them in your home or studio and never gig with either...?
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Saul » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:44 am

pologuy wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:08 am

Oh no you didn't! lol

Way to add another bit of kit into the mix ;)

Do you think that the S88/Komplete 11 is comparable to the Montage 8 - if you were just going to use them in your home or studio and never gig with either...?
Interesting question and I know Yamaha hate me answering such questions because they know what I am going to say. Sorry guys but here it comes ;)

Much as I like Montage it really cannot compete against the powerhouse that is Native Instruments and KOMPLETE 11. However as I also said we are not comparing like with like. For one thing the price comparison is a little skewed because you need to factor in the cost of the computer and screen whereas with Montage it's all in one unit.

Having said that, the S88 plus KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate AND taking the cost of my computer into account comes to just £1899. The Montage 8 is £3162

Quite apart from the fact that the S88 is a superbly built controller with a top quality keybed, if you just take a look at what is included in KOMPLETE 11 ULTIMATE you will soon see...if you were in any doubt, where the value for money lays?

You have to examine your particular needs though and whether you want to spend over three grand on a keyboard that is really designed to be used on-stage. If your never going to gig then perhaps it might be a be overkill?
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by parametric » Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:59 am

I think perceptions are slowly changing regarding Hardware over VSTis . . .

One only has to see the explosion in Virtual Instruments - to know that this is true . . .

Although the Control of VSTis has come on in leaps and bounds, with the Akai Advance range - and the new NI Kontrollers,

I'm still not entirely convinced that the majority of PERFORMERS are completely at ease with it . . .

IMO - there is still much REASSURANCE to be enjoyed by putting your hands on a piece of hardware that invariably does

what you EXPECT. Removes a deal of stress from the performance situation.

I can only suppose that this is the case if you look at guys who have been doing this stuff a long time . . .

Rick Wakeman for instance . . . . . still prefers an array of boards - depending on what he's doing.

Studio is of course different. You have more time - and the pressure is largely OFF

In the final analysis - I guess it always going to be "What suits YOU best". . . .

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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by EXer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:43 am

Derek wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:32 pm
And the patch at 20:45 is one of my favorurite FDSP sounds (name currently escapes me), but I have used that so many times. It's quite late in the P2 preset bank and (as can be head) just before the drums.

P2-122 Megawave
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:28 am

EXer wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 6:43 am
Derek wrote:
Thu Nov 02, 2017 10:32 pm
And the patch at 20:45 is one of my favorurite FDSP sounds (name currently escapes me), but I have used that so many times. It's quite late in the P2 preset bank and (as can be head) just before the drums.

P2-122 Megawave
That's the one! :D I couldn't think of the name and am away from home right now.

Nice little demo of it as well. Man, I love that sound! My other standout presets are Futopia (another FDSP sound which you can hear quite clearly in Yes's "the Ladder album as Igor Khoroshev was endorsed by Yamaha at the time, and had an EX5, EX7 and two AN1x in his rig), V-FX (FDSP note and velocity independent Flanging) and some of the AN preset leads like "sync lead" which I have still to get a sync lead that sounds as cutting in the Kronos engines. Oh and "Silver Lake" and its FDSP water model tinkling still sounds great. Finally Ski's carefully programmed "Ski Rhodes" uses the FDSP EP model to great effect to get a really lifelike EP sound that really growls when you dig in (the presets are great but tame in comparison to this one).

Still a mighty synth. :mrgreen:

Back OT, the Montage sounds as lush as the EX to me, and has the bonus of FM that (strangely to me) was not on the EX5. The Montage synth lead sounds are very good, but it misses an AN type engine for complex sounds like OSC sync and cross mod. I was disappointed when that did not appear as a Montage engine, but I will soon have a live host capable of hosting VSTis like UH-E Diva and Repro-1 which take no prisoners when it comes to analog sounds, and I am still keeping my Nord G2 Engine in my gig rack, so plenty of analog entertainment in addition to the Kronos and Montage
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Fri Nov 03, 2017 8:24 am

Derek,

My secret weapon for the Montage is Phat Analog 1 & 2 (not 3) by Easy Sounds.
They sampled oscillators and built some amazing VA sounds, some of the best I ever heard. Not kidding - I'm serious.
Great cutting Moog, Prophet and Oberheim leads and basses! Jupiter 8 pads, Oberheim syncomps! everything is made from the most basic building blocks.

Those packs are pretty darn cheap for what they are! I have all of their packs, but the concensus is that Phat Analog 1 + 2 are the best, along with their "Live Instruments" pack, which also has some great synth leads, along with great distorted guitar leads etc.

Those 3 really complete the Montage for me. All sounds are complete with Superknob assignments, switches and modwheel.

Here are some demos:

Phat Analog 1+2:
http://www.easysounds.eu/PhatVc_XS_Synthlead.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/PA2Vc_AnalogVintage1.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/PA2Vc_AnalogVintage2.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/PhatVc_XS_DryLd&Ba.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/PhatVc_XS_Pads&Poly.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/PA2Vc_Sweeps&Fx.mp3

Live Instruments:
http://www.easysounds.eu/LIVE_Distorted%20Leads.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/LIVE_ProgrLeadsynths.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/LIVE_DigitalSynth.mp3
http://www.easysounds.eu/LIVE_BrassSection.mp3
There are many more demos on the website.

I'm not affiliated at all with Easy Sounds. just think that what they did here is amazing.

PS - for anyout who's into chillout, ambient, lounge style music, their "Nature of chill" is also a great soundset.
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Re: Montage - cold, lifeless, sound...?

Unread post by pologuy » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:32 pm

Saul wrote:
Fri Nov 03, 2017 3:44 am

Interesting question and I know Yamaha hate me answering such questions because they know what I am going to say. Sorry guys but here it comes ;)

Much as I like Montage it really cannot compete against the powerhouse that is Native Instruments and KOMPLETE 11. However as I also said we are not comparing like with like. For one thing the price comparison is a little skewed because you need to factor in the cost of the computer and screen whereas with Montage it's all in one unit.

Having said that, the S88 plus KOMPLETE 11 Ultimate AND taking the cost of my computer into account comes to just £1899. The Montage 8 is £3162

Quite apart from the fact that the S88 is a superbly built controller with a top quality keybed, if you just take a look at what is included in KOMPLETE 11 ULTIMATE you will soon see...if you were in any doubt, where the value for money lays?

You have to examine your particular needs though and whether you want to spend over three grand on a keyboard that is really designed to be used on-stage. If your never going to gig then perhaps it might be a be overkill?
The KOMPLETE 11 package and Fatar keyboard looks very interesting - I would like to learn more about it...

But, since this is a Yamaha forum (and I don't want to "upset" people here) - where is the KOMPLETE forum you talked about previously...?

Thanks!
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