Montage - how's the sound...?

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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Sun Nov 05, 2017 10:55 pm

Yes, check out my earlier post here, listen to the samples.
Last edited by Monte on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by pologuy » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:33 am

No offense...

But, from the demos, Phat Analog is not quite as good as OP-X Pro II.

The famous 80's sounds, "Jump", "Axel F", etc. on Phat Analog are "close" to the originals - but OP-X Pro II nails them right on.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:39 am

pologuy wrote:
Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:33 am
No offense...

But, from the demos, Phat Analog is not quite as good as OP-X Pro II.

The famous 80's sounds, "Jump", "Axel F", etc. on Phat Analog are "close" to the originals - but OP-X Pro II nails them right on.
Non taken, be sure of that.
It's great for what it is, and unlocks tons of possibilities to the Montage. to me, the sound design in those soundsets from Easy Sounds is second to non.

I'm glad you reached OP-X Pro II based on my recommendation.
Last edited by Monte on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:10 pm

I think the Montage has some passable, even quite good analogue sounds, a little SY like in that respect, but AWM oscillators and filters are no complete substitute for a modelled analogue engine (or even a real analogue). Whilst I reported back on purchasing a Montage that I was quite impressed with how it sounds even with "just two engines". I still think that this is where Yamaha missed a trick in the Montage (speaking as a Montage owner now). I do not mind, as I came to the conclusion a while back that as well as two good modern 'boards, I needed a computer capable of running VSTs to get the best in modelling as well, such as any UH-E synth (but picking DIVA as the highlight) and OPX II. I really need this to make good use in my VST investment, so whilst I wish Yamaha had addressed the AN question, I am no longer totally disappointed in it (only partially) as with synths like DIVA, REPRO-1, Omnnipshere, and many others I think I am covered ;)

I still do not understand why if the EX5 (probably in development circa 1996) could have a duophonic AN1x, that a Montage could not have a full AN1x integrated as well. But I guess Yamaha must have had reasons for that even if I do not understand or agree with them. That does not say that I do not like the Montage. I love it, as it is a great sounding synth, but it could have been so much better. If revisiting FM and blending it with AWM2, then why not AN and VL engines as well?
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Saul » Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:26 am

I think the only reason Yamaha didn't do all those things is simply down to the marketing road map. If they gave all the goodies now there would not be much left to tempt us at a later date. You can almost guarantee that at some point in the not too distant future Montage 2 will appear with some of those extra features ;)
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Wed Nov 08, 2017 6:12 am

Saul wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:26 am
I think the only reason Yamaha didn't do all those things is simply down to the marketing road map. If they gave all the goodies now there would not be much left to tempt us at a later date. You can almost guarantee that at some point in the not too distant future Montage 2 will appear with some of those extra features ;)
I completely agree.
but I don't find it lacking, while VA is a nice to have for sound design, AWM2 has thousands of different waveforms to keep things interesting. Would have been nice to have though, I guess.

but before VA, it would've been better to have a kickass B3 emulation, a real one, not sampled. at least at the level of the CX-3.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:12 am

It's another example where modelling trumps samples. I played with a Montage organ for about 10 seconds before dismissing it as totally inferior to CX-3 or one of the several very good VST options.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:07 am

Derek wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:12 am
or one of the several very good VST options.
That's right Derek.. I know you want to say it.. G... G... Auuuuuuudddioooooo.. Bl..... :lol:
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:46 am

No, I'm quite happy with the CX-3 Engine in the Kronos. It is very good
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by pologuy » Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:49 pm

Derek wrote:
Wed Nov 08, 2017 7:12 am
It's another example where modelling trumps samples. I played with a Montage organ for about 10 seconds before dismissing it as totally inferior to CX-3 or one of the several very good VST options.
Couldn't the same be said for every sound/voice in the Montage, and other slabs, etc...?

Due to memory/size limitations, etc. - there will always be a VST that sounds better...?
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:58 pm

Yes and no, I think, to sit on the fence. :)

Sample and Synthesis has its place and makes some very nice sounds, and of course if it's an FM sound you are after..... If you like it, go with it. For me it is more certain signature sounds that do not come across well via S&S and FM routes. Organ is one of those as static samples do not capture all of the nuances of an organ sound. Another one is Mellotron with 8 seconds of tape under every key, with each note a different performance. Or with a modelled software synth its bringing it to life with oscillator features like sync and cross mode and a certain instability.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Saul » Wed Nov 08, 2017 9:24 pm

Interesting about modelling vs samples and I know we are getting slightly off topic but...when has that ever stopped us? ;)

I love the acoustic pianos inside Pianoteq BUT I also absolutely love the sampled pianos in Native Instruments 'Grandeur' and I use it a lot. I think Grandeur is about 8Gb in size? and it shows because I have not noticed any sample looping in it so far.

Maybe the best results come from hybrid sample + modelling which is I think what Yamaha used for the reface cp which probably explains why it is so playable even with it's 37 mini keys :)
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Nov 08, 2017 10:38 pm

Yes. I agree on both counts. :)

Pianoteq is great as a modelled piano due to its small footprint and efficiency. I love the SGX-2 pianos in my Kronos because of the use of samples for each key, which are unlooped and streamed from SSD (so little memory footprint apart from some sample pre-loading. Both sound great.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Monte » Thu Nov 09, 2017 9:44 pm

I'm a great believer in modeling. Pianoteq really takes it to a whole different level than the rest. Playability of Pianoteq is amazing. but once recorded to midi, it would sound much better with Grandeur.
Last edited by Monte on Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Montage - how's the sound...?

Unread post by Saul » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:02 pm

There is certainly a lot of untapped potential out there as far as modelled instruments goes but then maybe this is something they will pull out of the bag later down the road. After all just because we don't hear about it doesn't mean the likes of Yamaha, Korg and Roland are not working on it. We still have no idea what they have planned for NAMM so who knows? maybe some pleasant surprises there.
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