Alnico V pickups specs?

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Mimasu
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by Mimasu » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:17 pm

I suppose that that makes this mistery even bigger.

The SGH-1CB is referred to as the “New OPG-I". That would mean the SG3000 would have the "New OPG-I" and the SG2000, who always had the OPG-I, would have something else.

Remaining problem is that we still don't know if the reissue SG3000 PU is perhaps a short lived new Spinex, or a just differing Alnico V :( .

Leon
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by Cuthbert » Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:05 pm

Don't you think there might be an error in the book? After all the information on the infamous "Spinex" pickups have always been scarce, the only sure facts are:

1) They have a conventional humbucker cover, metallic, painted flat black
2) The poles are as big as a Gibson PAF, while the "bright Alnico V" have oversized poles
3) The backplates are nickel silver since 1982, no brass
4) They are printed SG3000, vintage ones also have the Showa era year

We don't know the magnet type (might be Alnico V), DC resistance etc...I have never seen one without cover as well.

On another note, is it confirmed the SG3000 has a bone nut? For what I see on this guitar it's definitely handmade, not injection moulded.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by TheSupposedStringMeister » Mon Sep 03, 2018 6:36 am

Cuthbert wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 2:49 pm

Anybody have a "recent" 2000? I think that will be the only way to solve this mystery. :?:
Mine is an early 1981.

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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by somebodyelseuk » Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:08 am

Hiya,
New member - this thread is actually the reason I've joined up.
I've owned an SG1000S since '84 from new and an '82 SG2000S
I'll jump in with some info. on their pickups later on - it's still early and I need coffee n fags first.

UPDATE:
Okidoki, first thing, I actually had the strings off and lifted the pickups on the 2000 yesrerday. What I know for definite is the 'covers' are metal - try soldering to plastic sometime. Probably brass, plated with what I think is black nickel, could be black chrome, but it doesn't 'look' like black chrome - sorry, I used to be in the plating industry.
Baseplates are brass and contrary to what's stated earlier in the thread, the neck p/up is just stamped 'SG' - and I KNOW FOR DEFINITE they're both pre '85 p/ups. The bridge p/up is stamped 'SG' and '15 7.1.2'
The DC resistance readings - bridge 7.00k, neck - 7.15k.
The p/ups in the 1000, built 2 years later, read EXACTLY the same.
Contrary to the popular opinion, these are not "hot" pickups. They're actually 'underwound', by PAF standards, similar spec to Gibson's T Tops of the 70s/80s, BUT I suspect the AlNiCo magnets could possibly be overcharged - don't have my Gauss meter handy to check. The magnets, coupled with the 'Yamaha setup*' - my 1000 came directly from Kemble in October '84 - could account for the 'hot pickups' myth. *The bridge pickup was far too close to the strings, typical of nearly every manufacturer of 'Les Paul-a-likes' these days.
The wind, combined with the A5 magnet tends to give a pickup with exaggerated lows and highs (or lacking mids).
Anyone wanting a more 'vintage' sound' from their SG, I'd advise swapping the magnets first in these pickups AND swapping their positions before going to the expense of new pickups. Magnets cost about £12 a pair and can dramatically transform a decent pickup. I'd probably go with a IV or a II, but I wouldn't be surprised if just putting in Vs with a lower charge made a noticeable difference.
I'm afraid I don't have any experience of the 3000 (or other models) but I wouldn't be surprised if the basic spec is the same, just with different magnets.
As far as 'Spinex' goes, that's either 'Yamaha-speak' for ceramic, or a different metal alloy - eg. originak Fender Wide Range 'buckers had CuNiFe magnets. Either way, there's a good reason Yamaha stopped using 'em.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by somebodyelseuk » Fri Dec 14, 2018 6:00 pm

Further to my previous post, I was able to measure the magnet charge of the pickups this afternoon -
Readings are average of readings taken over each pole screw, all are South polarity.

SG1000S
Bridge - 350 G
Neck - 260 G
SG2000S
Bridge - 400 G
Neck - 390 G

For the sake of perspective, I measured the Seymour Duncan '59s (8.5k/A5) that have been the bridge pickup of my pair of gigging guitars for the past 25 years. They both measured averages of 300 G and measurements taken from a 335 with AlNiCo II magnets measured 250 G on the bridge and neck.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by Cuthbert » Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:38 pm

somebodyelseuk wrote:
Thu Dec 13, 2018 10:08 am
Hiya,
New member - this thread is actually the reason I've joined up.
I've owned an SG1000S since '84 from new and an '82 SG2000S
I'll jump in with some info. on their pickups later on - it's still early and I need coffee n fags first.

UPDATE:
Okidoki, first thing, I actually had the strings off and lifted the pickups on the 2000 yesrerday. What I know for definite is the 'covers' are metal - try soldering to plastic sometime. Probably brass, plated with what I think is black nickel, could be black chrome, but it doesn't 'look' like black chrome - sorry, I used to be in the plating industry.
Baseplates are brass and contrary to what's stated earlier in the thread, the neck p/up is just stamped 'SG' - and I KNOW FOR DEFINITE they're both pre '85 p/ups. The bridge p/up is stamped 'SG' and '15 7.1.2'
The DC resistance readings - bridge 7.00k, neck - 7.15k.
The p/ups in the 1000, built 2 years later, read EXACTLY the same.
Contrary to the popular opinion, these are not "hot" pickups. They're actually 'underwound', by PAF standards, similar spec to Gibson's T Tops of the 70s/80s, BUT I suspect the AlNiCo magnets could possibly be overcharged - don't have my Gauss meter handy to check. The magnets, coupled with the 'Yamaha setup*' - my 1000 came directly from Kemble in October '84 - could account for the 'hot pickups' myth. *The bridge pickup was far too close to the strings, typical of nearly every manufacturer of 'Les Paul-a-likes' these days.
The wind, combined with the A5 magnet tends to give a pickup with exaggerated lows and highs (or lacking mids).
Anyone wanting a more 'vintage' sound' from their SG, I'd advise swapping the magnets first in these pickups AND swapping their positions before going to the expense of new pickups. Magnets cost about £12 a pair and can dramatically transform a decent pickup. I'd probably go with a IV or a II, but I wouldn't be surprised if just putting in Vs with a lower charge made a noticeable difference.
I'm afraid I don't have any experience of the 3000 (or other models) but I wouldn't be surprised if the basic spec is the same, just with different magnets.
As far as 'Spinex' goes, that's either 'Yamaha-speak' for ceramic, or a different metal alloy - eg. originak Fender Wide Range 'buckers had CuNiFe magnets. Either way, there's a good reason Yamaha stopped using 'em.
Interesting but my experience with the PUs in my 2009 2000 and 3000 guitars is different:

1) Alnico V bright: not as hot as a Dimarzio SD for instance but definitely higher output than the SD Alnico II pro I have in my Les Paul, this is probably due to the higher magnetic field of the magnet. I didn't measure the DC resistance but that's not a good indicator for total output, it just gives you how much copper there is in your pickup.

2) 3000 pickup: I don't know the specs, but the output is slightly lower but the pickups are more articulate with some sort of Hi-fi definition, while the Alnico V bright sounds a littlr more "flat" to speak.

Generally both are bright pickups, and they are very sensitive to the tone pot, unlike other guitars they both sound good with the tone cut to 8 or 7, in order to get the "moonflower" Santana sound from the 3000 I roll off the tone to 4, unlike other guitar it doesn't sound muddy at all.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by somebodyelseuk » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:20 am

Cuthbert wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:38 pm


Interesting but my experience with the PUs in my 2009 2000 and 3000 guitars is different:

1) Alnico V bright: not as hot as a Dimarzio SD for instance but definitely higher output than the SD Alnico II pro I have in my Les Paul, this is probably due to the higher magnetic field of the magnet. I didn't measure the DC resistance but that's not a good indicator for total output, it just gives you how much copper there is in your pickup.

2) 3000 pickup: I don't know the specs, but the output is slightly lower but the pickups are more articulate with some sort of Hi-fi definition, while the Alnico V bright sounds a littlr more "flat" to speak.

Generally both are bright pickups, and they are very sensitive to the tone pot, unlike other guitars they both sound good with the tone cut to 8 or 7, in order to get the "moonflower" Santana sound from the 3000 I roll off the tone to 4, unlike other guitar it doesn't sound muddy at all.
See my previous post....

1 - Di Marzio SD uses a ceramc magnet (and was wound to about 14k), so no surprise there, AlNiCo II doesn't charge as high as V, no surprise there either. DC resistance, especially with the magnet type, can be an indicator to the tonal character of the pckup.

2 - The '09 3000 pickups don't use the same magnets they did in the '80s. Good chance the rest of the spec is different, too.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by Les Turnbull » Mon Jan 14, 2019 7:24 pm

Cuthbert wrote:
Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:10 am
Mimasu wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:57 pm

I think all spinex PU's had a cover in one piece. At the other PU's you can see the two different coils surrounded by a separate plastic cover. At least that goes for the 3000 and 1600, 25S, 1966.

One of the coming days I'll check if that complies to all Spinex PU's.

Leon
Ok but besides the cover how can you spot them? I mean according to the info of the catalogue they might be Alnico V with a different cover...on the other side I found this pic of a 1982 SG3000:

Image

Besides all the wax and the Showa date they look the same as mine.

On the other side those are SG2000 pickups, from the same era (not recent):

Image

With brass backplates and not with the wire on the top coil... :?
Just noticed the three black marker pen dots on each pickup so checked my 1983 SBG 500 pups and the same marks are present . Presumably to signify neck or bridge position But could they supply any other info like V magnet .
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by Cuthbert » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:42 pm

somebodyelseuk wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:20 am
Cuthbert wrote:
Tue Dec 25, 2018 1:38 pm


Interesting but my experience with the PUs in my 2009 2000 and 3000 guitars is different:

1) Alnico V bright: not as hot as a Dimarzio SD for instance but definitely higher output than the SD Alnico II pro I have in my Les Paul, this is probably due to the higher magnetic field of the magnet. I didn't measure the DC resistance but that's not a good indicator for total output, it just gives you how much copper there is in your pickup.

2) 3000 pickup: I don't know the specs, but the output is slightly lower but the pickups are more articulate with some sort of Hi-fi definition, while the Alnico V bright sounds a littlr more "flat" to speak.

Generally both are bright pickups, and they are very sensitive to the tone pot, unlike other guitars they both sound good with the tone cut to 8 or 7, in order to get the "moonflower" Santana sound from the 3000 I roll off the tone to 4, unlike other guitar it doesn't sound muddy at all.
See my previous post....

1 - Di Marzio SD uses a ceramc magnet (and was wound to about 14k), so no surprise there, AlNiCo II doesn't charge as high as V, no surprise there either. DC resistance, especially with the magnet type, can be an indicator to the tonal character of the pckup.

2 - The '09 3000 pickups don't use the same magnets they did in the '80s. Good chance the rest of the spec is different, too.
1 - The Alnico II Pro Slash have a resistance of about 8 KOhm if memory serves me well, I would say both Yamahas have more signal than an average PAF loaded guitar.

2 - Sure?
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by JDZ » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:35 am

:shhh:
Spinex pickups were not just about the magnets...

"SA Series guitars feature our innovative Spinex pickups. Yamaha researchers found a way to control the response of each humbucking pickup coil individually. We do it by controlling the carbon content of the steel in the pole pieces. Low carbon steel produces a crisp, bright tonality; high carbon pole pieces emphasize the warmth and richness of the classic humbucking sound. Together they produce a wide response, a unique tone full of character, spark and intimate detail."

So Yamaha is ensuring a full range of tones produced are captured by using what appears to be two different sets of pole pieces, with different alloys for each coil in the humbucker. One set with low carbon steel and the other with high carbon steel.

Magnet apparently was their own alloy as well:

"The use of Spinex, a unique Yamaha magnetic alloy, plus specially developed pole piece materials and coil wiring results in pickups that offer warm, deep resonance with minimal feedback and unusual clarity".
Last edited by JDZ on Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by JDZ » Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:43 am

Cuthbert wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:05 pm
Don't you think there might be an error in the book? After all the information on the infamous "Spinex" pickups have always been scarce, the only sure facts are:

1) They have a conventional humbucker cover, metallic, painted flat black
2) The poles are as big as a Gibson PAF, while the "bright Alnico V" have oversized poles
3) The backplates are nickel silver since 1982, no brass
4) They are printed SG3000, vintage ones also have the Showa era year
Spinex also came with traditional chrome covers, not just black.

'84 SA 1300W came with Spinex, uses SA 800 pickups which are Spinex.

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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by Cuthbert » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:01 pm

JDZ wrote:
Mon Jan 21, 2019 3:35 am
:shhh:
Spinex pickups were not just about the magnets...

"SA Series guitars feature our innovative Spinex pickups. Yamaha researchers found a way to control the response of each humbucking pickup coil individually. We do it by controlling the carbon content of the steel in the pole pieces. Low carbon steel produces a crisp, bright tonality; high carbon pole pieces emphasize the warmth and richness of the classic humbucking sound. Together they produce a wide response, a unique tone full of character, spark and intimate detail."

So Yamaha is ensuring a full range of tones produced are captured by using what appears to be two different sets of pole pieces, with different alloys for each coil in the humbucker. One set with low carbon steel and the other with high carbon steel.

Magnet apparently was their own alloy as well:

"The use of Spinex, a unique Yamaha magnetic alloy, plus specially developed pole piece materials and coil wiring results in pickups that offer warm, deep resonance with minimal feedback and unusual clarity".
Sorry, but this advertisement sounds so generic that doesn't have any credibility IMO. The idea of two steel grades for the pole and the slug magnet coil sounds marketing gimmicks IMO...the entire idea that a steel grade does have a certain sound well, a little bit like snake oil sellers would state.
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Re: Alnico V pickups specs?

Unread post by JDZ » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:22 am

Yamaha Snake Oil then...
Those quotes are from Yamaha catalogs.

If you actually read through them they reveal a little more about Spinex each year.
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