CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Yamaha Genos digital workstation keyboard

Moderators: Derek, Buzzard, parametric, Saul

User avatar United States of America
Gordon49
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2018 2:35 am
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Gordon49 » Sat May 19, 2018 2:47 am

Regarding the CFX piano sounding thin, I want to tell you what happened to me that might help explain the thin sound. I always use my Traynor K4 keyboard amp when I gig with the Genos, and the CFX piano sounds great; however, I had a gig recently where the only way to get the equipment to the stage was to go down a flight of stairs. Since my amp is 57 pounds and I knew my back would give me problems if I carried the amp up and down the stairs, I decided instead to run the keyboard through the PA that the singer/guitarist brought. The PA channel On the mixer was run flat, but the CFX piano sounded so thin and unlike what it always sounds like. Since we were in the middle of the show, I couldn’t go over to the PA mixer to try to adjust the EQ. Maybe those who have experienced the Genos CFX piano sounding thin might either adjust the EQ or try different amps, speakers and mixers.
User avatar Portugal
PdeMatos
Posts: 3
Joined: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:44 am
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by PdeMatos » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:11 am

I tried everything possible to edit with that sound, more decay to sustain the notes, eq, DSP effects added to Damper Resonance, and the sound is only good for playing with full arrangement surrounding it, for a solo playing, like at the start of a Ballad, it's really a poor sound...
As we paid so much for our Genos, why don't we have a Bosendorfer piano sound like the Montage and the MODX owners do? From the demos I hear, wow, much more body, decay, resonance, sustain, harmonics, a really good piano sound. I could only wish Yamaha remembers us, Genos owners, regarding this piano sound Library
What do you guys think on this?
Greetings

Paulo
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11631
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Saul » Tue Sep 18, 2018 9:55 am

Hi Paulo

Thanks for the update. I agree with you that the Bosendorfer Imperial Grand should be made available to Genos owners. I prefer it over the CFX which I am sure is fine but never quite does it for me. I am not entirely sure why Yamaha have not made the Bosendorfer available to Genos owners but I can certainly try and find out.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

CASIO PX-S1000/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors. Makro Racer
User avatar Uganda
SysExJohn
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 771
Joined: Tue Dec 02, 2008 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by SysExJohn » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:41 am

Tuning and E.T. (Equal Temperament for the uninitiated).
Now there's a subject that one could spend many hours, if not days, weeks, months, even years discussing.

So, just a few words of enlightenment.
For fixed pitch instruments tuned In E.T., every note, apart from octaves, IS out of tune.
5ths are probably the most in tune of all the notes, 3rds are way out off tune.
There are ways of tuning that try to minimise these effects, ever heard of "stretch tuning" a piano?

Many books have been written about the subject over at leat three centuries.
Tuning and temperaments have been the subjects of heated debate for as long.

If you want a really good CFX, then the one recorded at Abbey Road studios might be of interest.
Every single note individually sampled, each one at, something like, 20 different velocity levels, including with and without various pedals and synpathetic string resonance, etc.
I bought the "lite" version a few days after it first hit the market.

CFXlite.jpg
CFXlite.jpg (88.67 KiB) Viewed 653 times

It can be tuned to any of the common pitches:

CFXtuning.jpg
CFXtuning.jpg (18.78 KiB) Viewed 653 times

It can also be tuned to many of the common temperaments available on-line.

CFXtemper.jpg
CFXtemper.jpg (73.15 KiB) Viewed 653 times

And it comes with a convolution reverb unit built into the stand-alone or VST sample player.
UW500; 2xMU1000 + PLGs AN, DX, VL, VH & PF; SC8850; EWI4000s + VL70m; Samson Graphite 49.
Privia PX-560, AN1x, Novation X-Station 25. E-MU 02 cardbus + 1616m x 2. Sonar 7 PE and now CbB. XGworks.
Garritan GPO4 and GPO5, COMB2, JABB3, IO, Organs, Steinway, World, Harps ... and now CFX Concert Grand.
User avatar Canada
Khudson7
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 2:55 pm
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Khudson7 » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:12 pm

I may be a little late for this post, but I seem to be having the same problem with piano sounding very thin especially in the middle C and up about 1 and 1/2 octaves using my hs5 and hs8s speakers(yamaha speakers). I do not notice it when using the bose over the ear headphones. I have played with the eq and controls on back of speakers for many hours trying to get it to a decent piano sound in those octaves, and yes, I have it set now to remove some of the tininess, but still not satisfied with the piano sound I have hoped for. Don't get me wrong...I am extremely happy with the Genos and all the things i can do with it, but this is just one annoying thing that is a constant irritation and I had hoped for a better sounding piano. Are there any expansion packs that you may have tried that might give a better piano sound than those included with the Genos? Has anyone else had this problem with these sets of speakers? Just thought I would throw this out there to see if anyone might have any suggestions.

Thanks,
Ken
User avatar United States of America
Bobk365
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:34 pm
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Bobk365 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:49 pm

I'm a new Genos owner (November 2018) and am generally very happy with it.
GJA's post about the thin quality of the Piano voices on the Genos caught my eye because it was the first thing I noticed when I set the Genos up and started playing. I have very little negative comments about this keyboard but I must say the Pianos are disappointing. They just seem to lack a "fullness" I expected. I have the same issue while playing through my Bose headphones, JBL615s or QSC K12s. I've still got a lot to learn and maybe there are work-arounds to this problem.
Rob
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11631
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Saul » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:06 pm

Hey Rob, welcome to the forum :)

I think I mentioned this before but Yamaha generally do not "enhance" their acoustic piano presets and instead leave it down to the user to sculpt the sound to their own liking? This means that straight out of the box they can probably seem a little lifeless? However usually with a little tweaking here and there the sounds come to life.

Not being lucky enough to own a Genos of course I can't say for certain but knowing how Yamaha approach these things It's a pretty good bet that this is what is going on here...I hope ;)
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

CASIO PX-S1000/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors. Makro Racer
User avatar United States of America
Bobk365
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:34 pm
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Bobk365 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:47 pm

Saul, Thanks! I hope you're right. But in the meantime I'll try some tweaking myself to see if I can fatten the sound up. It's a fantastic instrument but for the price we paid for it I think Yamaha should come up with something that we can use if we have to do an hour of nothing but Piano. I had a Casio Privia 350 prior to getting the Genos and its Piano had more body to it. There's no way I want to carry two keyboard around. If I come up with anything myself I'll repost on here and will continue to watch for updates.
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11631
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: CFX Piano Sound On Yamaha Genos Sounds Thin?

Unread post by Saul » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:01 pm

It's no secret around here Rob but I am a big fan of Casio and especially their new PX-S1000. It sounds great and the keys are just a pleasure to play on. Of course I am not comparing a £575 Casio with a £3k Genos but if Casio can get the pianos right at that price I would hope Yamaha could do the same in their flagship keyboard? :think:
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

CASIO PX-S1000/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors. Makro Racer
Post Reply

Return to “Yamaha Genos Forum”