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Genos CFX...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:40 pm
by pologuy
Is it just me or do the YouTube demos of the CFX (and other pianos) on the new Genos sound... leaps ahead of Yamaha's other keyboards...?

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:43 pm
by Monte
To me they sound quite alike?

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 11:24 pm
by pologuy
Didn't Yamaha always reserve the best piano samples (CFX, CFSIII, etc.) - for the Tyros, now Genos, series...?

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:02 am
by Monte
Good question. Let's say it mostly sounds great, is a good board. you'll be fine with it! or with a Genos for that matter I think.

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:14 am
by pologuy
I am actually waiting for NAMM before making any decision. :)

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:44 am
by SysExJohn
Actually, if you want a really good implementation of the Yamaha CFX piano, then Garritan brought out an excellent VSTi some time ago that won't break the bank, and a 'lite' version that's also remarkably good. It was all sampled at Abbey Road studios.
I bought the lite version a little while ago.

The drawback?
You need about 13 GB of disk space for the lite version, and a good ASIO sound card to get low latency real-time playing.
You also need a fast disk drive or SSD for loading the sample player.
For most articulations it's sampled at 20 different dynamic levels.
It now supports partial pedalling too.

Admittedly most (all?) youtube videos are showing classical music played using the sample set.

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:26 pm
by pologuy
SysExJohn wrote:
Tue Nov 14, 2017 10:44 am
Actually, if you want a really good implementation of the Yamaha CFX piano, then Garritan brought out an excellent VSTi some time ago that won't break the bank, and a 'lite' version that's also remarkably good. It was all sampled at Abbey Road studios.
I bought the lite version a little while ago.

The drawback?
You need about 13 GB of disk space for the lite version, and a good ASIO sound card to get low latency real-time playing.
You also need a fast disk drive or SSD for loading the sample player.
For most articulations it's sampled at 20 different dynamic levels.
It now supports partial pedalling too.

Admittedly most (all?) youtube videos are showing classical music played using the sample set.
Yes, the Garritan CFX Abbey Roads Studio One is definitely a great VST - many consider it to be the best VST of a grand piano available today.

The other, comparable one, is VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 - beautiful grand piano and sampling, etc.

And then, of course, Synthogy Ivory II American Concert D - of which Yamaha has a synth loadable version (8 velocity layers (610 MB) instead of the 20 layers in the VST) called American Grand.

Teeter Totter

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 1:08 pm
by Backporch Music
With the advancing electronic invasion into music, how can one differentiate what is electronic genius or musical knowledge and skill.
Given sufficient time, it seems that computer skill could create any kind of music (including vocals) at professional levels and conventional musicians have the advantage only in interactive performance. Has the pleasure of simply playing music been rerouted to programming something "new and better" than live musicians?
Is practice futile :/:

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 3:23 pm
by SysExJohn
I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here BackPorch but no, practise isn't futile.

The Garritan Sample Player doesn't create music, it is simply an electronic version of a very expensive grand piano.
A quite precise copy, electronically, of a Yamaha CFX concert grand.

One couples a piano keyboard to the software and plays it, just like the real thing.
The better one's technique and powers of interpretation the better it sounds.
It does have the ability to playback a MIDI file as well.

It just means for an outlay of around 80 dollars, for the lite version, one can have a pretty accurate simulation of a 100,000 pound concert grand in your home.

There's a very good interpretation of a Chopin Mazurka played (by a human being) using the software on youtube.

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Wed Nov 15, 2017 4:11 pm
by parametric
Totally agree John.

I have found, during the process of creating my own compositions, that the QUALITY of performance at the data input stage is ALL IMPORTANT.

This is why I intensively PRACTICE the parts I am playing-in. There really is no substitute . . .

YES, OF COURSE, you can correct and edit midi easily after the event, but the attention to detail required is enormous if it is to sound "natural".

The expressiveness encapsulated by a well executed performance, contains nuances of velocity, aftertouch and volume which is all captured "in the moment". Editing it CONVINCINGLY, out of context of "the performance" is both difficult and time consuming - so (IMO) the LESS editing you have to do - the better.

This parallels nicely with a former "life" of mine as a technical photographer.

If the image is NOT sharp - or is badly exposed - FORGET IT.

All the histrionics in the darkroom will take forever and will never get a good print.

These days, we are BLESSED with amazing tech in our DAWs and VSTis, which enable us to "Have" instruments we could never afford to own in the flesh. The answer to the maiden's prayer - so to speak.

The ability to PLAY well, with accuracy and expression I don't think will ever be "automated" . . .

(Remember - SOMEONE had to produce that midi file :roll: )

This becomes EVEN MORE difficult (IMO) if you are "realizing" non-keyboard instruments ON a keyboard - especially if you have no knowledge of how the real instrument is played - or what their limitation and range are . . . .

The result is more likely to be a case of "Close - but no cigar!" IMO

parametric

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:29 pm
by javelin276
Your photography analogy is perfect, I can't think of a better way to communicate that thought.

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:47 pm
by parametric
Thanks Javelin :wink:

These concepts are are sometimes difficult to imagine and I find an analogy helps to get the point across . . 8)

para

Re: Genos CFX...

Posted: Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:12 am
by SysExJohn
A propos this, see the Mike Verta youtube video links I posted in the "Good bowed strings ..." thread.