Yamaha P-105 midi issue

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mp3ireland2
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Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by mp3ireland2 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:15 pm

Hi,
I'm trying to control my P-105 programs with midi controls, using mobilsheets to send the signal when I load up a tune.
The issue I'm having is that for example if i'm on the strings program and send the signal to the piano to change to piano 1, it combines stringes with piano 1 instead of just changing to it. I have tried in midiosx also and am having no joy there either. I am using the midi reference here : https://jp.yamaha.com/files/download/ot ... _mr_a0.pdf
and think i've all the settings correct but can't get it sorted.
Anybody any expierence of using midi to change programs on a yamaha piano?
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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by Saul » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:13 pm

Hi and welcome to yamhamusicians.com :)

Unfortunately being mainly an acoustic guitarist and someone who prefers the "plug in and go" approach to keyboards, my midi skills are sorely lacking. However we have plenty of midi experts on the forum so do hang in there, someone will be able to guide you in the right direction soon :)
Saul
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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:40 am

I believe you mentioned (on another forum) that you are sending the MIDI on channel 2, correct? From what you're saying about the two sounds being combined, it seems that channel 1 is playing the Acoustic Grand Piano sound and channel 2 is playing whatever voice you're trying to select, such as Strings. You might try sending the MIDI to the P-105 on channel 1 rather than channel 2. I realize (from the other forum) that you're also sending MIDI to a synth (a MOX?), and you're using channel 1 for the synth, but you should be able to send different data to the different instruments using the same channel, since each instrument has its own MIDI port-- that is, since you aren't daisy-chaining the two keyboards together using MIDI Thru and sending the combined data for both instruments via a single port.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by mp3ireland2 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:51 am

Yeah I've reverted to channel one, the default midi in for the p105 was all channels so when I found that out I was optimistic that could be an issue, so now I have p105 set to receive on channel 1 and am sending it on channel 1 from my tablet. I'm hoping it's something simple that a fellow p105 owner knows. I must try the transpose codes this evening, as they might work fine, which is actually more important as playing in wrong key worse than playing with wrong sound!

Looking at it again the manual see :
Normally the instrument will respond to MIDI program change numbers received from a computer, causing the same numbered voice
to be selected on the corresponding channel (the keyboard voice does not change).
So this means it's impossible to get the keyboard voice to change.

Like you said in the previous forum I may have to send the midi to the tablet, and get it to echo the signal back if I wanted a different sound, I'd be worried about the lag here so I think it's time to give up and adjust things manually! I'll try that this evening, just see if there is a delay, it seems a bit long winded! But that could be what's happening that the local voice is still the same but i'm getting the added voice back through the midi.
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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by parametric » Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:31 pm

You may need to check that the P-105 is set to ALLOW program/bank changes . . . . via midi IN?

There may even be a filter setting ( a page of check boxes) where you can select which messages

are allowed through?

The <Bank> and <Program> boxes might need to be checked before it will respond as you expect?

perhaps this helps?

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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by mp3ireland2 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:22 pm

parametric wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:31 pm
You may need to check that the P-105 is set to ALLOW program/bank changes . . . . via midi IN?

There may even be a filter setting ( a page of check boxes) where you can select which messages

are allowed through?

The <Bank> and <Program> boxes might need to be checked before it will respond as you expect?

perhaps this helps?

parametric
Thanks for the reply, I had ensured the settings were all correct on the piano, it seems like it's not possible to modify the sounds that you are playing, only to modify the midi signal it sends out. I was hoping i'd find a P105 owner into their midi on the internet somewhere but I've tried a few forums and spent many hours trying before i read the line quoted above in the manual, saying the sounds on the keyboard itself don't change.

I've instead opted to put a blank page in front of songs i transpose in mobilesheets and change the voice on in red saying what key and what instrument in red and one at the end telling me to tune back to standard tuning and go back to piano!

Was more important to get things sorted for the Roland XP-50 synth which works seamlessly responding to midi signals for patch and transpose requests, so makes gigs a lot smoother and less frantic!
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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Wed Mar 14, 2018 4:36 pm

My PSR-E models work the same way-- incoming MIDI patch changes will change the sound used on the specified MIDI channel, but the MIDI channel is not connected to any of the keyboard parts (Main Voice, Dual Voice, and Split Voice-- called Right1, Right2, and Left on other models) or to any of the eight auto-accompaniment parts (Rhythm1, Rhythm2, Bass, Chord1, Chord2, Pad, Phrase1, and Phrase2). So you can change the voice that's being used to play the Note events which are received over MIDI, but not the voice that's being used to play the notes you're pressing on the keyboard.

However, there are two exceptions to that situation:

(1) The models I have include a feature called One Touch Setting (OTS) that is used to automatically set the Main Voice (Right1) to a given voice for one of the styles or songs. If you select the OTS voice (which is Voice Number 0 on my models) for the Main Voice, the patch changes for channel 1 will affect the sound for the Main Voice. Unfortunately, this method seems to be severely limited on the models I have, because only the voice messages (Bank Select and Program Change) are responded to, and selecting a voice this way will apparently cause all of the voice parameters (Channel Volume, Pan, Reverb Depth, Chorus Depth, etc.) to be set to the default values associated with that voice. The other drawback is that you apparently can't use this method to select the Dual Voice (Right2) or Split Voice (Left).

(2) The other exception is much more useful. Basically, you turn the keyboard's Local Control off so it doesn't make any sounds when you play it. Then you send the keyboard's MIDI data to a computer or other device and then send it back to the keyboard. This means the notes you play on the keyboard will be sent from the keyboard and will then be received by the keyboard as incoming MIDI events-- so in essence you're using the keyboard as a controller to play the keyboard as a sound module:

Keyboard's MIDI OUT or USB-MIDI --> Computer, Laptop, Tablet, etc.
Use a program to insert patch change messages
Computer etc. --> Keyboard's MIDI IN or USB-MIDI

This lets you do all sorts of things that might not otherwise be possible on your keyboard, such as splitting the keys into more than two zones (left and right), or layering more than two sounds together, since you have all 16 channels to work with.

Anyway, if I'm not mistaken you can send MIDI events to the app you're using (MobileSheets), because in the manual it talks about defining a series of incoming messages which can be used to tell MobileSheets that you want it to load a song, turn the page, etc. And I think I saw something about MIDI THRU in the manual as well. So it might be possible to use trick number (2) to achieve what you want:

1. Turn the P-105's Local Control off.
2. Send the P-105's MIDI data to MobileSheets.
3. Have MobileSheets send the P-105's MIDI data back to the P-105.
4. Have MobileSheets send patch changes, transpose messages, etc., to the P-105.

If for some reason MobileSheets can't handle steps 2 and 3, and if you can run a second app in the background while using MobileSheet, you might be able to find an app that can route MIDI data from one port to another, and set it up to route the P-105's MIDI back to itself.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
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Re: Yamaha P-105 midi issue

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Thu Mar 15, 2018 5:32 pm

I had another look at the manual for MobileSheets, and I don't think it's sophisticated enough to do what I was suggesting.

I didn't see any way to direct specific MIDI messages to specific MIDI ports, so I think you're stuck with just 16 channels over all, and you'll need to use a specific channel for a specific MIDI device.

And while MobileSheets obviously must be able to receive MIDI, given the fact that it can be programmed to take some action when it receives a given triggering event, I didn't see any reference to MIDI Thru, so there's no clear way to have MobileSheets echo the received MIDI data back to a keyboard.

That still leaves the possibility of using some other app in the background to bounce the P-105's MIDI back to itself.

Am I correct that your new tablet is a dual-boot machine, with both Windows and Android? I'm not familiar with the capabilities of Android as far as running two apps at the same time, one in the foreground (MobileSheets) and one in the background (for routing the P-105's MIDI back to itself). But if you can boot the tablet under Windows and use the Windows version of MobileSheets then you can run a program such as MIDI-OX in the background and have it route the P-105's MIDI back to itself.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
Current controllers: M-Audio Axiom 61-II
Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
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