Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

This section is for Yamaha downloads that do not fall under one of the other categories

Moderators: Derek, parametric, Saul

User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Sun Jul 01, 2018 6:05 pm

This is probably the only really useful sound / patch editor for the Yamaha Portasound PSS-480/580/680 series, which were 2 operator FM keyboards, with mini keys and MIDI.

They have five patch slots, officially called "banks" (a bit confusing - each bank just holds one user patch). This software lets you download all five banks, to a PC running Windows XP or later - I've tried XP and Windows 7 Pro x64. You can then edit them, and send them back to the keyboard. It gives you access to some parameters which the user interface hides. Unfortunately, the MIDI spec only allows transferring a complete patch, so live tweaking isn't really an option. It's fairly fast though.

It was written by a guy called bobby, who so far only posted in this forum once. I hope he'll post again.

He also provided the source code, and I have been able to recompile it with Visual Studio (6, I think - an old copy), running on XP, in "XP Mode", ie. inside the Microsoft virtual machine, In Windows 7 Pro. You won't need to do that to use it, but if you ever decided to extend it, that's how you'd start. I never took it any further, but if someone knows Visual Basic, they could.

Here are the downloads I have for it, since they were quite hard to find and won't be around for ever.

There are two main versions, one that comes with the runtime for Visual Basic, and one which doesn't... I think. I'm sure you'll figure out which is easiest to get working. There are also a collection of patches which Bobby provided, and the source code.

PSSEdit.zip
(1.76 MiB) Downloaded 95 times
PSSEditNoVB.zip
(375.01 KiB) Downloaded 68 times
PSSbanks.zip
(24.99 KiB) Downloaded 224 times
PSSEditSrc.zip
(346.01 KiB) Downloaded 63 times
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11544
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by Saul » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:07 pm

Thanks for taking time to work on those and for putting up the downloads ((i)) ((i)) ((i))
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Yamaha FS-TA/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:52 pm

No problem :)

To be clear; although I recompiled the source code, using Windows XP, that was just to see if I'd be able to make changes to the software if I wanted to. The downloads I've provided are exactly what bobby distributed, not a version recompiled by me.
Last edited by AndyHornBlower on Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Wed Jul 04, 2018 1:28 pm

Here's a youtube video on using PSS Edit, which I watched a while ago. It's a bit rough but it's useful for getting started.



Also, here's some notes I made when I was getting the hang of using it:



Receiving patches from PSS-x80 synth
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Press Receive SysEx button in PSS Edit, then:

Press MIDI send button on PSS-x80, twice, then press Inc or Dec.

The first five things listed are the patch "banks" (one patch per bank!). Ignore the rest.


Sending changes from PSS Edit
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Set the Bank number, at top left, for the slot it should go into.

Press Send From Editor. The patch is stored directly to the indicated "bank" button, not in a temporary edit buffer

Sometimes the display shows ERR. It doesn't appear to be a problem, necessarily, but the only way I can find to clear it is to turn the synth off and back on again. It might be necessary to restart PSS Edit too, or at least select the MIDI controller In and Out again.


Opening from a file
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Fairly simple, but after opening it, it needs to be selected, from the library list, before sending it to the synth. I keep getting that wrong, and sending dog knows what.

Keep the patches in a folder with a fairly short path name, because it tries to show the whole path, and the box can't be resized or scrolled horizontally, so the file name gets chopped off.


Unknown parameters
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

These aren't defined in the MIDI spec, but they are different for some of the built in patches - bobby's provided a folder full of those. I assume he got them by selecting a preset voice then pressing Store and a "bank" button, so he could import them to the editor.

It's possible the extra bits don't do anything, of course. Maybe the patches were imported from a similar synth, which used them.
User avatar Great Britain
zaxxon
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by zaxxon » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:00 pm

hey, thanks for this thread this is very useful,
i dont suppose anyone can help with a question please,
i have a yamaha portasound music station PSS-580 keyboard (1989), and i have the 5 save slots where i can save custom made instrument sounds to memory..

the problem:

if i turn off the keyboard for several hours, the sounds in memory are lost and the stock default sounds are present in that memory again instead :(

is there some kind of battery back-up or other method yamaha use in this keyboard to remember the custom user created saved sounds, or is there nothing that can be done and it is normal for this keyboard to lose its saved sounds in memory after being unplugged for several hours?
Last edited by zaxxon on Wed Apr 03, 2019 11:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11544
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by Saul » Wed Apr 03, 2019 3:11 pm

Hi zaxxon and welcome to the forums :)

Doesn't the PSS-580 have a built in battery..apart from the user installable batteries that is? It's an old keyboard now so very likely the internal battery is not holding charge.

Does it keep it's sounds in memory if you have batteries installed? I seem to remember another keyboard, a PSR that if you had flat batteries or removed them it would not hold the sounds.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Yamaha FS-TA/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:05 pm

zaxxon,

The official way is to leave 6x C cell alkaline batteries in it. I'm not sure how long they last, because I don't do that.

I tried using 2x 18650 Li-Ion cells, with a home made adapter. That gives close to 8V, which is enough, but it only lasted for a few days, and discharging rechargeable cells too low, especially lithium based ones, is really bad for them, so I stopped doing it.

Powering it from the battery clip is probably not all that efficient though. It seems to power a 5V regulator, which then powers enough of the main board to keep the memory happy. It could probably be hacked, to work more like the Yamaha DX7, TX7, TX81Z etc, so there's a long memory life from a small 3V battery. It would take a lot of work though.

If you use Ctrlr, Martin Tarenskeen has a panel for it, which was not quite finished, the last time I checked, but does load patches properly, AFAIK.... It seems there's a new version, as of a few days ago:

See:

http://ctrlr.martintarenskeen.nl

- under Yamaha PSS-480 editor/librarian for Ctrlr (version 20190331)

There is no difference between the PSS-480 and the PSS-580, other than the colour scheme, so that panel works for both.
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11544
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by Saul » Wed Apr 03, 2019 5:08 pm

Nice one Andy, thanks for adding that info ((i))
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Yamaha FS-TA/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Wed Apr 03, 2019 6:35 pm

You're welcome, Saul :)
User avatar Great Britain
zaxxon
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 2:46 pm
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by zaxxon » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:29 am

hi again and thank you very much for the replies Saul and Andy :)

Saul: by the way i thought i would mention - when i signed up to this forum yesterday i could not find the (profile) Flag:- for the united kingdom (or england).. so i ended up settling for the wales flag. i was about to ask if england/uk was not welcome on this forum, but then noticed just now, great britain is there, so i went with that :D

er, so anyway
it's strange with the PSS-580, it was mentioned here that batteries left in the keyboard would help, although if batteries are not present, and power adapter is unplugged.. for me the sounds are still stored safely in memory and not lost. the problem occurs after a few hours of no batteries/adapter present; im not an electronic pro or anything but i wonder if an electrolytic capacitor is coming into play here then? or otherwise, well i wonder what on earth can be happening .....

well anyway, that's a shame about the sounds not being saved long term :?
a watch style battery inside which would last several years like the popular CR2032 lithium battery found on pc mainboards would have been ace, but .. well u cant always get what u want.

im wondering, do u guys have any other suggestions of other keyboards where the sounds CAN be saved long term (such as keyboards using a lithium battery inside as mentioned above), but the keyboards are still cheap to buy? these PSS/portasound keyboards are still cheap to buy which is nice, even though they are quite vintage now (eighties). i got mine for £10 recently, local pickup in my area. due to this issue with sounds not being saved though, i dont think i will keep it unfortunately, because the stock sounds are a bit too cheapy sounding for me, and although i was satisfied after some editing to make the sounds more to my taste, i certainly dont want to be doing that every time i turn on the keyboard.

:handgestures-thumbupleft:
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11544
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:40 am

We are actually UK based so would have been incredibly remiss not to have a UK flag for people's profiles. Glad you found it (Y)

Have you opened up your PSS-580? Might be worth doing to check if it has a CR2032 in there also to see if there might be a leaking cap.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Yamaha FS-TA/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Thu Apr 04, 2019 3:51 am

It just didn't have battery backup, as far as I can tell.

If you're lucky, there might be a capacitor that retains power long enough to change a set of batteries; I'm not sure. You could add one to do that, easily enough, I guess - maybe just wired to the battery tray. There's quite a lot of empty space around it, inside....

I missed the part about yours retaining the memory for a few hours, zaxxon, so yes, there is one. I've never checked that on mine.

I've added the service manual to the downloads section, along with a screenshot of the block diagram:

viewtopic.php?f=173&t=13194

It might be worth looking through the parts list, in the service manual, but the only battery related things I can see are for the 6x C cell battery box.

The PSS-580 was sold as a home keyboard - in a flashy coloured cardboard box, meant to appeal to that market. It was made with some pro grade parts though, like a proper 5 pin DIN MIDI interface, and the keybed from the DX100.

It's a good synth, for what it is, and it's surprising just what can be done with 2 operator FM. It makes a good MIDI keyboard too, provided you don't need velocity. Mono synths mostly didn't have it, and organs just have a volume pedal, so you don't always need velocity.

I'd suggest just working around the problem of not having proper battery backup for patches.

If you connect it to a PC, you can back up your five patches (called "banks", in this case), before you turn it off, then load them again next time you use it - and you can use the PC as a giant patch bank, to hold any number of different saved or downloaded patches... mostly saved ones, though a few have been shared online.

If you want to gig with it, and take five patches with you, just put some C cells in and load up the patches before you go. The cheaper sort of batteries will do, just don't use rechargeables unless you want to risk killing them by leaving them in too long. Ideally, take your DC power adapter too, so the batteries will last longer.

If you want to start another thread about what old home keyboards are good to buy, post a link to it here and I'll make some suggestions, zaxxon.
Last edited by AndyHornBlower on Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Thu Apr 04, 2019 4:17 am

I see two 1000uF capacitors, on the parts list - one rated for 10V, and one for 16V. It's quite likely those are used to smooth power going into the voltage regulator(s).

I don't actually see a regulator chip on the parts list, just two zener diodes, but they may have made something out of discrete components. There isn't a full schematic, unfortunately.

If you find the electrolytic capacitors, and measure the voltage across each one, you might be able to figure out which of them is feeding the RAM chip. It should be okay to solder bigger capacitors in parallel with both, within reason. If you use a really big value, that places an extra load on your DC adapter, when you first turn it on.

You could quite safely wire a very large capacitor in parallel with one of those, with a small resistor between the two, to limit the initial current, e.g. a 100 Ohm resistor would limit that to 12V/100 Ohms = 120mA. When it's powering the memory, the current will be quite small, so the voltage drop across that resistor will be small too.

Bear in mind that electrolytic capacitors have a plus and a minus terminal, like batteries, and you have to wire them up the right way. They get damaged if you don't... I actually saw one that was wired backwards explode once :)

Incidentally, a good 9V DC adapter (preferably regulated) is better than a 12V one. A 12V one will just generate more wasted heat.

They are prone to noise if you use a noisy DC adapter, that isn't regulated. It's fairly simple to make or buy a regulator to produce a clean 9V output from a noisy 10V-12V input.
User avatar Ireland
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 11544
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:26 am

I was thinking maybe we should split this thread to a new topic as it is dealing with loss of sounds in memory, might make it more useful for those who have the same issues?
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Follow Us On Tumblr
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Yamaha FS-TA/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ibanez AE245/Arturia Keylab 61 MKII/Arturia Analog Lab 3/Arturia Piano V2/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Ableton Live 10/Behringer QX1202USB Mixer/Presonus Eris 4.5 Active Monitors
User avatar Great Britain
AndyHornBlower
Member
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Jun 24, 2017 7:06 am
Contact:

Re: Yamaha PSS x80 series sound editor - bobby's PSSedit

Unread post by AndyHornBlower » Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:58 am

If you feel that's best, Saul, but as I see it, it's a feature. Not being happy with the feature is an issue, I guess, but it is what it is.

It seems to me the best way to deal with it is to use bobby's PSS Edit, or Martin Tarenskeen's Ctrlr panel, to save patches and restore them later - unless it needs to be used away from a computer, in which case add the batteries.

It does serve to highlight why you'd want to use one of those, so it doesn't seem too far off topic to me. I guess hardware mods as workarounds could be a separate topic, but I didn't really see that conversation going much further :) *

Suggestions for other good period home keyboards definitely should be a new topic though.

* Since that was my 100th post, I felt it deserved one of these:

:/:
Post Reply

Return to “Other Yamaha Downloads”