24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Resources and links for Replacement Floppy Drives, Floppy Drive Adapters and USB Floppy Driver Emulators.

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24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by parametric » Tue May 15, 2018 2:47 pm

These adapters are what you need to replace a failed floppy drive in many older boards.

THIS one is for the SY85 . . https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Yamaha-SY-85 ... SwoydWqlJm

But DO CHECK the advertiser's OTHER ITEMS for variants for OTHER BOARDS -

W5 and W7 for instance . . . .

There are THREE PAGES of variants, I noticed Yamaha, Technics, Korg and Roland models . . . . . Check!

Preferred floppy Drives are mentioned, as are some usb emulators . . .

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

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BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by EX5_etc » Mon May 21, 2018 3:48 am

As requested, here is again the pinout of the SY85 floppy drive adapter.
SY85_adapter.jpg
Regards,
DrF
Motif XF6, DeepMind 12D, MicroArranger, MicroKorg S, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MJC8, EMX2, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49, AKAI Pro Advance 49, and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by Saul » Mon May 21, 2018 9:58 am

Thanks DrF, that will be incredibly useful to a lot of people :)
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by NotWakeman » Fri May 25, 2018 8:58 am

Hello,

First of all, I'd like to thank the people in this forum for the support and encouragement. I'm quite new here, and had a great reception. I'll share now what I did in return, and I hope someone will benefit from it.

It all started with a bad 720KB floppy drive in my W7. I tried to replace the belt, but it still didn't work. So I decided to replace that drive with a 1.44MB one (but I'm still using 1.44MB disks formatted to 720KB). I bought a Sony MPF920 from a computer recycling/repurposing facility in Vancouver. And to connect it to the W7 I combined several pieces of information I collected from this forum and others, including some dedicated to CNC machining and Amiga computers. Pretty "old" stuff. In the end, I made a simple adapter that solved my problem. I'll tell you some details and hopefully give you some ideas.

Now it's time for the...

******** DISCLAIMERS ********
1) Do it at your own risk, blah, blah... you know the drill. Fried your synth? Hurt yourself? Sorry about that. But don't blame me. I'm not liable. I'M NOT EVEN HERE!!
2) There are at least two versions of the W7 (mine is a Version 2), and two versions of the Sony MPF920 floppy disk drive. There's no guarantee my adapter will work with your equipment, especially if you have different versions.
3) I don't have any intentions to put this synth on the road. If I did, I would probably take some measures to seat the cables more securely, to make sure they wouldn't come off the pins and touch something they shouldn't. For my intended use (at home), I'm satisfied with my current solution.
**********************************

About #2 above... Mike (mikesblunt) has made some adapters in the past that are supposed to work with the W7 and the SY85 (and maybe others). I tried to reproduce the same connections (with the help of EX5_etc) but I could only get it to work partially. I could read, write and format disks. The problem was if I powered up the synth or started any disk operation without inserting a disk into the drive, the synth would hang up. However, as soon as I inserted a disk, it would resume its operation. That's what made me suspect that I needed the /READY signal. And I found out in the CNC/Amiga forums how to find that signal in the MPF920 controller PCB. After I passed that signal to the synth, everything worked perfectly.

So let's build it. The parts you'll need are:

1) One ZIF connector for the flat cable (FFC). I used part #39-53-2245-ND from Digi-Key. Maybe you could instead remove the connector from the original floppy drive if you'd like, or even cut the board to use the tracks that are already there - of course, if you do that, there's no way back.
2) One 2K2 resistor.
3) Header pins. I used 20, could have used up to 24 - more than that makes no sense, as the FFC is a 24-way... Also, I opted for the 90-degree pins because I already had the plastic box shape in my mind - more on that later. It's probably wise to get a set with a 0.1" pitch, which can be easily soldered to the board (#6 below). The ones I've got have a square profile, 0.5 or 0.6mm thick. I had to enlarge the holes in the PCB for them, though (it's SO nice to have a rotary tool at hand!).
4) One 3mm red LED if you don't like the green one in the new floppy drive - I'm not showing how to replace it, it is pretty straightforward if you have the minimum skills and tools.
5) Female-female jumper wires. I bought part #1528-1961-ND from Digi-Key, it's a 20-way cable, more than enough for this project.
6) Some type of board to connect everything. Technically it's possible to solder wires directly to the ZIF connector, but I wouldn't recommend it, it would be too fragile and probably unsafe. I used a pre-perforated PCB with parallel tracks that I had around. Digi-Key has some in stock for $3-5 that should do the job.
7) Raw jumper wires, if you need the /READY signal like I did.

Maybe the most tricky part is the board. The ZIF connector has two rows of pins with a 0.1" pitch, but the rows are shifted 0.05" from each other. So a regular pre-perforated PCB won't allow us to solder both rows of pins. What EX5_etc did was to cut a slit on the board so he could solder one of the rows to the board and the other row would go into the slit. I chose a different approach, I cut two pieces of my PCB and soldered each row on each piece. Since they are shifted, it's important to leave a gap between them to prevent unwanted connections. See picture 1 (sorry, my cell phone can't focus at that distance). Then I soldered the header pins on each side. I used 12 pins on the "even" side and a few less on the "odd" side, to make it easier to identify the pins later. See picture 2.

At first I connected the jumper and the resistor according to EX5_etc table here (or here). You can also see the jumper in picture 2.

If I had a floppy cable (and I did until a couple of years ago) I would have made a larger adapter with the ZIF connector and a 34-pin header for the floppy cable, and make the connections on the board using jumpers. Since I didn't have a floppy cable, I made the "mapping" between the 24-pin connector in the synth to the 34-pin connector in the floppy drive outside the board, using the female-to-female jumpers. I knew I would have to disconnect and reconnect the adapter a few times (and I wasn't wrong), so I kept the wires in the usual sequence on the adapter side. I did remove them a few times. To reconnect them I would just follow the sequence again, instead of following the table or my little sketched diagram. See picture 3. At this point you may want to do some tests to see if everything works fine. If you observe the symptoms I did (hanging up until a disk is inserted), you probably should try wiring the /READY signal (see below).

Then I wanted to make it safe. There's lots of bare metal inside the synth. I wouldn't want that little board to touch the metal. I found a little ABS box in my parts stash. It was a bit smaller than the board, so I had to cut part of the board (it wasn't being used anyway). See picture 4.

In picture 5 you can see the slit I cut on the top, for the FFC.

Picture 6 shows the adapter connected to the floppy drive.

Picture 7 shows the FFC going through the slit, and the cuts on the sides of the box for the jumpers - this is what I meant when I said I had the shape in my mind. Had I used straight header pins, I would have everything coming out of the top of the box and the board would probably be loose inside the box. With the 90-degree pins I got a better support for the board.

Picture 8 shows the adapter now connected to the FFC (with the floppy drive already attached to the synth). Picture 9 shows the box already closed. Picture 10 shows it in the final position. I used one of the W7's internal screws to hold the box.

And that's it. Now, if you need the /READY sign, like me, you can use one of the "not connected" pins in the MPF920 header and wire it to a specific point in the internal board. There are two versions (at least) of this drive, and the boards are different. If yours is like mine, you can see where to solder your wire in picture 11. I connected it to pin 1 in the header. Outside the drive, I added another jumper to the pin 6 of the ZIF connector. And removed the jumper from 6 to 20, so now pin 20 in the ZIF connector goes to pin 16 in the drive header only. This is my final diagram:
W7_floppy_adapter.jpg
All set. Final test. Power up, and the red LED goes off - picture 12. Insert a disk, press Disk - Status - Enter, and voilà! (picture 13)

Again, I hope this can help someone. I tried hard to make the pictures and the text as clear as possible. English is not my first language, so please forgive me for any mistakes...

Cheers!

NotWakeman


p.s.: I also replaced the tactile switches - all 59 of them - but I don't think there's much to learn in that. However, if you'd like to see pictures, I've put some here.
Attachments
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pic13.jpg
Last edited by NotWakeman on Mon May 28, 2018 6:43 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by Saul » Fri May 25, 2018 9:28 am

Excellent write up! ((i)) ((i)) ((i))

I will never understand why Yamaha didn't just use proprietary drives for their keyboards. There is no sensible reason for it and it has caused so many problems over the years. Luckily the community out there are an ingenious bunch and have come up with solutions to keep there great keyboards up and running :)

Thanks for taking time to photograph the steps and write this up. It's incredibly useful info to have on the forum.
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by parametric » Fri May 25, 2018 2:12 pm

I echo those sentiments entirely. That's a well put-together document, with excellent detail in the pictures including those close-up inserts.

As most of you KNOW, my recent background was some 19 years in technical support - so I fully appreciate what has been done here.

Similarly, I cannot imagine WHY Yamaha went with a proprietary floppy drive. Why reinvent the wheel?

Perhaps the clue is in the original replacement price of that drive - £120 - £160 IIRC . . . .

It still seems bonkers to me . . .

[rant] Sadly, our modern "culture" favours a throw-away mentality, backed up by huge MANUFACTURING effort, which in turn exacerbates Global Warming - which is (surprisingly) what we have "just been told :roll: " is ALL BAD for us . . . .

THIS only goes to show that NOTHING must be allowed to interfere with the making of MONEY, not even if it entails destroying the Environment . . . . [/rant]

So (IMO) by repairing our gear we are also helping to protect the environment . . . . ((i))

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by Rara » Fri May 25, 2018 2:50 pm

Nice write up and detail,

thanks for the effort in that :-) bookmarked for future reference.

I too was puzzled by yamahas use of those drives, when by that time (1990) 1.44meg disks where common and pretty much standard everywhere.
a single blank floppy was 50 cents (aud) in 1987 ..... casio was using 1.4megs on the fz-1 in 1987 .....

I have not used the floppy drive in my SY77 for quite a while and I think (don't quote me on this) the same thing happens which you describe.
I did the swap over to a direct drive sony using just a modified ribbon cable which is on the webz somewhere.
however doing that means i lose the ability to format the disk in the sy77 using proper 720k discs.
otherwise it works perfectly, read, write, erase etc.
(i was told Roland has the same issue with some of there gear)

Something for me to look at or get looked at while its in for a major service.

Rara.
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by NotWakeman » Sat May 26, 2018 5:38 am

Saul wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 9:28 am
Thanks for taking time to photograph the steps and write this up. It's incredibly useful info to have on the forum.
That's the plan. :)

I keep reading my own post and finding little details I can add here and there. I guess I'll edit the post a few times in the next couple of days.
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by wohali » Mon Oct 08, 2018 11:14 pm

Hi there,

Just a quick note that the currently available SY99 "compatible" 26-to-34 pin floppy adapter on eBay is incorrectly designed. As it ships, it will never send a disk changed signal to the SY99.

On the SY99, pin 8 of the 26-pin connector is the /DCHG (inverted Disk Change) signal. That should be connected to pin 34 of the 34-pin connector.

This adapter ships with pin 8 disconnected entirely, and pin 34 connected to pin 6 (which is actually /DSEL1, the Drive Select 1 line!) See below:

Image

The fix is easy, but it requires an X-Acto knife, a soldering iron and a piece of wire. Cut the trace going from pin 34 to pin 6. Then, solder a wire from pin 34 to pin 8 of the 26-pin connector. When you're done, it should look like this:

Image

Combined with the FlashFloppy firmware, all that is necessary is to press a single button to change disk images, and the SY99 will see the disk eject and a new disk be inserted.

Be sure to put the following lines in your ff.cfg file if you make this change:

Code: Select all

interface = ibmpc
pin34 = nchg
Depending on your version of the FlashFloppy firmware, you may need "chg" instead of "nchg." Try the other if the first you pick doesn't work.
Last edited by wohali on Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 24 to 34 pin adaptor/convertor for VARIOUS older boards

Unread post by parametric » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:14 am

THANKS wohali,

for taking the trouble to describe this fault - and illustrate it so well. Your pictures are clear and nicely labelled. ((i))

You have made it EASY to correct, for those who may have bought this item . . .

ATB

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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