The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Saul » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:57 pm

I would then imagine it is just a question of time before DAW control appears in MODX. Really there is not a massive difference in the OS of both keyboards so there is no technical reason I can think of as to why the same DAW function could not appear in a future update.
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by EXer » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:18 pm

Saul wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:47 pm
It cannot be stressed enough, these are "performance synths"

It is NOT because they are "performance synths" that they don't have a full fledged sequencer.

It's exactly the OTHER WAY ROUND: it is because they do not have a full fledged sequencer that they are called "performance synths".

The SAME synths with exactly the SAME features PLUS the editing functions of the Motif sequencer would be "workstations" (notwithstanding sampling).

Therefore Yamaha would have had to rewrite the user interface of those funtions, which they decided NOT to do.

And using the terms "performance synths" and "performance recorder" is a carefully considered choice made by Yamaha to cut short any discussion about the absence of a full fledged sequencer.

N.B.
The point of this post is to put the cause and the consequence in the right order.
The point of this post is NOT to discuss whether Yamaha's decision was right or wrong, nor if it would have made sense from an economical point of view (additional development costs vs. sequencer as selling argument with less and less users needing an on board sequencer).
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Saul » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:04 pm

It isn't a matter for debate. If you want a full blown sequencer buy something else. No one is forcing you to buy a MODX or Montage.

Yamaha created a Performance Synth, it is that simple. That is it's purpose and that is what it is, end of story.
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by parametric » Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:55 am

If you remember Saul, at that "Artists Day" at Yamaha, we met Josh Phillips of Procul Harum - trying out the Montage7 . . .

At the Gig we did later at the RFH, I talked with him about the Montage. He'd acquired the "8" by then.

He was very enthusiastic about the Performance aspect, remarking how easy it was to change registrations

in Songs during a gig.

Interesting to note that the Hammond remained (Y)

Unsurprising really, as it a vital component of their signature Sound.

The Montage was also used extensively on the Album they had just recorded . . .

details here: viewtopic.php?f=129&t=8598&start=15#p56154

We never mentioned the sequencer aspect at all. . . .

I'm inclined to agree with EXer as to it's usefulness, and while it might be technically possible to create a finished

Piece inside a board, I have always found it to be tortuous and fiddly to do so - SO I DON'T use it for other than a

scratch-pad to get the notes down . . . .

It is SO MUCH easier in a DAW - so why make life difficult?

The MODX sounds amazing from all I've read, and I hope to put some meat on the bones tomorrow . . . 8)

In short, the scope of the onboard sequencer would not decide me on a board, as I simply don't really use it

to any great extent.

The MODX SOUNDS to be a MOXF replacement on STEROIDS . . . . .

P.S. In the light of the release of the MODX, I would have to supplement my quote in the above link, from . . .
IMO - if you feel you DON'T really need the "Super Knob" on the Montage - Which IS an AMAZING feature - I have to say - then you can save a DEAL of money, and NOT be at all disappointed with a MODX6/7/8/
To:
IMO - if you think you DON'T really need the "Super Knob" on the Montage - Which IS an AMAZING feature - I have to say - then you can save a DEAL of money, AND have the SuperKnob by going with the MODX6/7/8
NB, to get the most from the SuperKnob it is best to get the controller pedal for it, leaving BOTH hands free for playing.

More later

parametric
Last edited by parametric on Mon Sep 24, 2018 2:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
Reason: corrected an incorrect statement - and explained the correction (oops)
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Derek » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:16 am

parametric wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 1:55 am


Interesting to note that the Hammond remained (Y)

Unsurprising really, as it a vital component of their signature Sound.

parametric
No surprise, for reasons I have explained in other posts: The Hammond sound is far too complex to be accurately replicated by Sample and Synthesis. For that you need to take a complete modelling approach (unless you have a real Hammond of course), which is what Korg did for the CX-3 engine found in the OASYS and Kronos.
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Saul » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:48 am

Well Yamaha have never claimed anything at all for the sequencer in the MODX or MONTAGE come to that. What they HAVE done is given us a recording scratch pad because that is the extent to which "most" buyers would ever use on-board recording/sequencing. It is not one of the MODX's unique selling points.

The only reason I brought it up at all is because a lot of people were under the impression there was no sequencer at all on these keyboards which of course is incorrect. It was never meant to be a complex sequencer so criticism for it not being so is not really valid. The options are all out there. If the MODX doesn't fit the bill, buy something else :)
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:55 am

"Sequencer" is a pretty broad term in relation to synths and keyboards. On many synths their "sequencer" is really just a "step sequencer" that can be used to make loops of up to 8, 16, or 32 notes or drum beats!
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Saul » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:08 am

Exactly, it is a broad term and essentially comes down to software or hardware that can record audio/midi in a "sequence", which the MODX and MONTAGE can both do :)
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Stevie18 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:21 pm

The Montage has a pretty nice implementation of a DAW control. You have to put it in a special mode (there is a button on the touch screen). Then you can use the performance recorder buttons for start/stop/record etc. Also you can use the faders for controlling tracks and use the scene buttons as function keys which you can programm to do whatever the DAW allows. Similar for the rotary knobs. I use it a lot, now. I really great improvement!

Considering that the Montage and the MODX are functionally almost identical and have pretty much the same firmware, I would be surprised if it would not come to the MODX. The price in terms of implementation effort should be close to zero...
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Stevie18 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:24 pm

Talking about the performance recorder: I used to have the MOXF (which I did not like). I never used the sequencer much, it was just too difficult to use. Whenever I needed it (infrequently) I had forgotten how it works. And it is pretty complex to use without a touch screen.

In contrast the Montage performance recorder is very primitive but extremely easy to use. I use it a lot as a quick scratch pad. And then Cubase to do the rest... So for me the limited performance recorder is actually an improvement.
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Saul » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:28 pm

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:21 pm
The Montage has a pretty nice implementation of a DAW control. You have to put it in a special mode (there is a button on the touch screen). Then you can use the performance recorder buttons for start/stop/record etc. Also you can use the faders for controlling tracks and use the scene buttons as function keys which you can programm to do whatever the DAW allows. Similar for the rotary knobs. I use it a lot, now. I really great improvement!

Considering that the Montage and the MODX are functionally almost identical and have pretty much the same firmware, I would be surprised if it would not come to the MODX. The price in terms of implementation effort should be close to zero...
Hi Stevie, welcome to yamahamusicians.com :)

Thanks for the info about the DAW addition to MONTAGE. I have no doubt at all that Yamaha will add this function to MODX eventually. As you rightly pointed out there is little if any difference between the OS on these keyboards so technically I cannot see why the same function would not be on both.
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Stevie18 » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:36 pm

Thanks for the welcome. Very nice forum, thanks for operating it!
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by RobertE » Thu Oct 04, 2018 6:24 pm

Most of the comments here seem to point to the difficult process of operating the onboard sequencer vs. using a DAW. Very true.

I thought the DAW integration in MOXF was actually a really good start, so that - with having Steinberg onboard - understandably may have created the expectation that it will evolve, maybe even dramatically. So I guess the reason some of the users may sound disappointed could be just that - high expectations. I hope Yamaha doesn't mind :)

I don't necessarily think either Montage or MODX 'needs' a powerful sequencer, or that they are 'incomplete'. But I do hope that Yamaha, at one point, will take all it's knowledge, talent and might to bring an instrument to the world that will change the way we write music. A beast that is hungry for ideas, one that encourages you to keep going - but one that will keep track of everything you do, and never gets in the way. I personally believe that writing music is a manifestation, enriched by both our momentary compulsions and our limitations. There's a time when we need organized, pre-planned, and carefully calculated actions to make that work a polished piece, but I believe that naturally comes at a later stage. Right now, let me lay down all these ideas floating in my head, let me try things - and do keep track of everything I do and don't allow me to loose focus. Give me ways to compare recorded sections (takes), audition instruments and phrases, make quick corrections - and do remember everything I do, I may use them later.

So how can you do that when the onboard sequencer reminds of an old HEX editor? If you are an incredible performer, and know exactly what you are about to do, it may very well work for you. But with a more natural approach, more people would write, and the ones who write will do even more so. Hardware and hybrid implementations already exist outhere, and are both incredibly successful and popular - so the need cannot be denied; so maybe, in the end, computer mices and software DAWs are not necessarily the ultimate tools in that initial process of scoring music - even though they can undeniable become important in various parts of the process.

I personally use a hybrid rig - a NI Maschine Studio as a sequencer and sampler, which I pair with a DAW controller and various keyboards. I actually don't do much dance or electronic music, but I absolutely love the fluency with which I can lay down ideas, experiment, make corrections, mix and adjust everything on the fly (without touching the mouse or squint at the monitor every step of the way). It feels more like creating music, and less like doing taxes. A lot more.

I do understand that such an instrument would come at a price. I don't think anyone was complaining about costs, but I believe many would gladly pay for it, if it would enable them to write - or write more. But that can't be just a larger screen, or more on board functions and menus. It would probably have to come with a different approach - even a fundamental change in the concepts and old doctrines that seem to seep to the surface based of the limitations and the way things work, or used to work internally. So in the end, a complete focus on user experience with the ultimate scope of aiding writing and performing music. Should that be 100% hardware? Not necessarily, but seamless integration needs to exist, and hardware should provide sufficient control and feedback to make that process perfectly fluent.

I love my current setup and I will likely see a Montage or MODX in my studio soon. But I won't hide that I am longing for the day when I can flip the switch on an instrument that has no inhibitions walking with me all the way through the process. Should that instrument be Montage? With that sound power behind it, well.. I will confess I wouldn't mind it.. No, I wouldn't mind at all. :)
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by Mack » Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:38 pm

Hello

I´m new to the forum.

Today I bought the MODX7. I Love it!

But then there is the thing with the recorder. I for one like using a recorder/sequencer integrated in a synth.
I used to have the SY77 a long time ago. I had a PSR-500 and used that recorder (i think there was 5 "tracks") to the limit.

The recorder on the MODX have all the basic things I need to do some basic sequencing it seems, 16 tracks for one, punch in and out etc.
But what I cannot figure out is how I can record every track individually. What ever I record it reflects on all the tracks.
Is there anybody here that uses the recorder and can tell me how I for example select a bass sound for track1 and a piano sound for track etc. All I seem to be able to do is turn on or off the track for play back. Its like the MODX records on all the tracks simultaneously all the time. Or what am I missing here.

Thanks and best regards...
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Re: The Yamaha MODX Sequencer - Performance Recorder

Unread post by d2ba » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:11 pm

MIDI sequence data (of Song Tracks) can be converted to Arpeggio data in one of three ways, according to the Convert types below. These types can also be selected independently for each destination Track— providing enormous flexibility and performance control.
Normal (Normal Arpeggio)
The Arpeggio is played back using only the played note and its octave notes.
Fixed
Playing any note(s) will trigger the same MIDI sequence data.
OrgNotes (Original Notes)
Basically same as “Fixed” with the exception that the Arpeggio playback notes differ according to the played chord

Motion Sequencer Block
The powerful Motion Sequencer feature lets you dynamically change sounds by operating Parameters depending on sequences created in advance.
It provides real time control for changing sounds depending on various sequences such as Tempo, Arpeggio, or the rhythm of external connected devices.
You can assign up to eight desired Sequence types for one Lane.
You can also set up to four Lanes corresponding to the Motion Sequencer function for one Part. Up to eight Lanes can be used at the same time for the entire Performance.
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