Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by srcohiba » Tue Oct 09, 2018 12:30 am

Just got the MODx7. I currently use the iPad to send program changes to my keyboards via iMidiPatchBay. I have the iPad and the keys connected to an iConnectMidi4. My Nord Stage 3 is Master 1 on Midi Channel 1 and I want the Yamaha on Master 2 on Midi Channel 2. I can't seem to get the Yamaha to accept program change commands to correspond with the performance presets. I've looked at the Data List that was available online and if I read it correctly it seems that the performance presets are called up with MSB 63 and LSB 0 with programs 0-127; and then as you move up to LSB 1..2, etc. it should access an additional 0-127 programs. Then the Performance Multi's use msb 64 I'm assuming this is how to call up these presets. Not certain. I can't get this to work. I've included my current midi settings on the Modx7.

I've had no problem controlling the Nord and my Kurzweil. For some reason, the Modx7 has a mind of its own and I'm likely clueless. Your help would be greatly appreciated as I'd like to program all my settings for my next gig in 2 weeks as its my intention to replace the Kurzweil with the Modx7.

I'm going nuts trying to get this to work. Again, it was a breeze calling up the programs in the Nord and my Kurzweil. What makes Yamaha so different?

Appreciate any insight.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Tue Oct 09, 2018 5:28 am

Hi,

What makes it so different on the Montage is the overall structure 640 performances in each preset, user or library bank leading to the number of Performances in the order of 8,000 possibilities......

You can find out the MSB/LSB, and this is one of the areas where the Montage has passed through the “Yamaha Stupid Quirks” department! Every Yamaha Synth must have some.....! :D

I am away from home at present (and stupid-o-clock flight, hence posting at this time!), so cannot precisely guide you, but if you have the performance on screen (not live set), then you can touch the Performance name, and a “menu” will appear on the left hand side of the screen. Towards the bottom there is a touch icon called INFO or something like that, and that will provide the details.

Having said all that, my question would be, have you considered using LIVE SET to arrange the performances you wish to use live? This is much more suited for stage use, and the MSB/LSB can be found in the data list manual. The MSB is fixed and then the LSB selects a bank with the live set and the PC number selects a slot in the bank,

This is how I do patch selection in Cantabile, which is my live MIDI host and processor that controls all of my gear on stage. The only drawback of live set is you have to manually select the Liveset first (I hav e one for each band). You cannot do it via MIDI. Another one of the Montage “Stupid Quirks” which I am pressing Yamaha on. Sure I can select the approapriate live set before starting a gig, so not a deal breaker, but it would be so much nicer to do it via MIDI selection, as I can do on my Kronos.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by srcohiba » Tue Oct 09, 2018 3:56 pm

I'm using iMidipatchbay on the iPad where I program each song I perform into setlists. It changes the programs on my 2 keyboards (Nord S3 and hopefully the Modx) and my external module. I like the program because it syncs to my song charts with lyrics and chords as well. I press the song and poof; everything is ready to go. If I didn't have that, the Live Set would be used. But then I'd have to remember which performance patch to use on the particular song. It appears you can access the Live Set pages via Midi, but not the particular patch in the set. Whereas in the Nord Stage 3, in the song mode; I can store a song which is callable via midi and have 5 presets saved into that song.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Tue Oct 09, 2018 8:26 pm

That’s what I mention above. :) I have the Montage in Live Set Mode and my Kronos in Setlist Mode when gigging. I use Cantabile as my MIDI processor and when I select a Cantabile song (via my FC300 Foot Controller) then it selects the right Set list items on the Kronos and Montage (and soft synths and my Nord G2 Engine).

I just had time to check the latest Montage Data List. The MSB is hard set to 3EH (62) for Set List, and this means the currently selected setlist, which was my point above. You cant switch to a specific Montage setlist via MIDI, it is the one you have selected manually. Once that is selected, the MSB/LSB/PC combination can select items in that Set List. A bit of a pain, but not a deal breaker if you are using just the one setlist whilst on stage .

The Bank select LSB is then a “page index” into that set list (0-1F) and a program change is then the slot in the page (again 0-15). I have requested via idea scale that you have a means of selecting a specific Live Set as well.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by pax-eterna » Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:31 pm

Derek, just to add to your post, you can select various Live Set pages (1-16- or more accurately 0-15) via midi and then a particular Live Set "slot" within that group of 16...is that what you meant? Refer page 188 of the Data List manual. The codes are there. I am still trying to ascertain a way to see if there is a hidden sysex the unit generates when you press the Live Set button...if we can figure that then a full midi message including sysex could do the whole thing :) I am not hopeful though MIDI-Ox is not picking up anything...I might need to tweak a bit hahah!

EDIT: Oh and fwiw, you can also set Live Set mode as the startup....saves having to manually load it :)
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by srcohiba » Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:38 am

Thanks for your help. I was able to get everything running perfectly now. Would have been nice if some of this information was in the manual.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:36 am

pax-eterna wrote:
Tue Oct 09, 2018 11:31 pm
Derek, just to add to your post, you can select various Live Set pages (1-16- or more accurately 0-15) via midi and then a particular Live Set "slot" within that group of 16...is that what you meant? Refer page 188 of the Data List manual. The codes are there. I am still trying to ascertain a way to see if there is a hidden sysex the unit generates when you press the Live Set button...if we can figure that then a full midi message including sysex could do the whole thing :) I am not hopeful though MIDI-Ox is not picking up anything...I might need to tweak a bit hahah!

EDIT: Oh and fwiw, you can also set Live Set mode as the startup....saves having to manually load it :)
Hi

I have the Montage setup to boot into Live Set and my first User Live Set

I am successfully selecting live set pages and live set slots. What you cannot do (I believe) is then select a specific Live Set. I have live sets for Band 1, Band 2, Band 3, etc.

When I load my Cantabile Setlist for the band I am in that day. The Kronos will automatically be pointed to the right setlist via Bank Select MSB/LSB messages that Cantabile is sending. With the Montage I still have to manually select the right Live Set first. After that then the messages coming from Canatabile can select a Live Set PAGE within the manually selected Live Set. Only a small thing, but you sometimes forget small things in the pressure of being on stage. So I like to automate as much as possible.
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Derek Cook

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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:38 am

srcohiba wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 12:38 am
Thanks for your help. I was able to get everything running perfectly now. Would have been nice if some of this information was in the manual.
Excellent! I agree some manual assistance in this area would be useful rather than expecting people to dive into the data list.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by pax-eterna » Wed Oct 10, 2018 1:08 pm

Derek wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:36 am
I have the Montage setup to boot into Live Set and my first User Live Set

I am successfully selecting live set pages and live set slots. What you cannot do (I believe) is then select a specific Live Set. I have live sets for Band 1, Band 2, Band 3, etc.

When I load my Cantabile Setlist for the band I am in that day. The Kronos will automatically be pointed to the right setlist via Bank Select MSB/LSB messages that Cantabile is sending. With the Montage I still have to manually select the right Live Set first. After that then the messages coming from Canatabile can select a Live Set PAGE within the manually selected Live Set. Only a small thing, but you sometimes forget small things in the pressure of being on stage. So I like to automate as much as possible.
You can select any Live Set page and any slot within that page Derek. As far as I can see the onyl manual thing you need to it to put it into Live Set mode...and even that can be automated by making it the default startup mode. So the entire thing can be automated.

MSB 62 determines it is a Live Set, the LSB then determines which page (0-15) and then the PC # determines which live set slot you want (again 0-15)
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:53 pm

I know :)

But what I want to be able to do is programmatically select the live set in use (as well as the Page and Slot), which you currently cannot do on the Montage, but I can do on my Kronos. I’ve suggested to Yamaha changing the MSB to be variable to select a specific live set, or I’d be quite happy with designating a CC to make the same selection, in the same way that Yamaha introduced a CC in a recent OS upgrade to allow scene selection via MIDI.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by pax-eterna » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:55 pm

ahhh, yes now I get where you are at - a bit remiss of Yamaha, they are usually one of the best when it comes to MIDI control. Would not take a lot to add extra MSB.....you could even do it via NRPNs and Data bytes...anyhoo you have it logged with them so fingers crossed haha!
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:34 pm

I suspect the involvement of the “Yamaha Stupid Quirks” department..... ;)
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by pax-eterna » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:40 pm

Derek wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:34 pm
I suspect the involvement of the “Yamaha Stupid Quirks” department..... ;)
haha! Don't let the "C" man get within a city block of this one!!

TBH, for my use, I'm not sure I'll even use Live Set....I'll be sending Performance change messages from the iPad, so Live Set is really a bit superfluous. I'll probs use it for the two bands I am in...one/two pages (Live Set that is) for them...but for solo work, yeah I'll probs just concentrate on using the Performance mode.

I used to use Cantabile when I had the full VST setup and just a controller, it is a good program!
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by Derek » Thu Oct 11, 2018 8:18 am

Cantabile is a fine export from your country, along with the stubby holder as a great contribution to the civilised world for keeping your beer cold and your hands warm! :D

Brad is doing an excellent job with Cantabile. Version 3 keeps getting better and better. My live rig is now Montage 7, Kronos X61, Nord G2 engine (plus FC300 MIDI foot controller), all integrated via Cantabile, as I am using it first as a MIDI processor. It then does my backing tracks, which also drive my light show via DMXIS, and I have this running on a small NUC “brick” PC that sits neatly in my rack and which has the power to run in Cantabile even heavy weight VSTis like Omnisphere and UHE-DIVA, to name but a few.
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Re: Help: What are the MSB and LSB's for MODX Presets?

Unread post by pax-eterna » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:31 pm

Cool, sounds like a sweet setup Derek (Y)
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