MODX - Make or Break Questions

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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pax-eterna
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by pax-eterna » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:11 pm

ALL, of which require the user to "go through hoops" to achieve what should be a rather simple task! Which was sorta my point!
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by anotherscott » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:18 pm

pax-eterna wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:11 pm
ALL, of which require the user to "go through hoops" to achieve what should be a rather simple task! Which was sorta my point!
I don't know... Selecting a Song to call it up with its associated Performance doesn't sound like much of a hoop, even if you'd rather select a Performance to call it up with its associated Song. Kind of 6 of one, half dozen of the other?
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by vertig0spin » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:46 pm

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:42 pm
when you save a song it is stored to link to an associated performance. So when you load the song, you get the right performance automatically. That should be fine for many use cases, it is just a little bit slower than selecting a performance.
How slow is it to find and load a song?
If I finish song1 and want to load song2, how long would it take?
Do you know if it is the same on the Montage as the MODX, or does the Montage allow you to assign songs to buttons on the keyboard, so that you can just press that button and it loads the song more quickly?
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:42 pm
for each performance you can select a User Audition from the list in the same screen
and you do not have that stupid limitation that you cannot leave the performance recorder screen while it is playing :-).
So, if I open a song from 'Live Set' favorites and start playing it(I assume it must open the Performance Recorder screen?), I can't leave the performance recorder screen?
Can I easily switch to a different 'Live Set' performance while the song is playing, or am I basically stuck on that particular performance while the song is still playing?

If the answer is "I'm stuck on that performance while the song is still playing" and I need to have a couple of different sounds to switch between throughout the song, can I link two different multi parts together and switch between them using the SuperKnob while the Song plays out using numerous other parts in that performance? For example, if I have a song playing parts 1-4 (Drums, Bass, Guitar1, Guitar2) with "Kbd Ctrl" turned off on those parts, and have parts 5-6 (Piano-Strings) with "Kbd Ctrl" turned on, as well as parts 7-8 (layered synth solo parts) also with "Kbd Ctrl" turned on, can I configure that performance so that the default playable sounds with the SuperKnob to the left is parts 5-6, and then in the middle of the song, turn the SuperKnob to the right to play just parts 7-8 for a solo, and then go back to parts 5-6?


Regarding the Velocity Offset (which if I understand correctly, moves the velocity layers that you trigger either up or down for the same attack force you stirke the keys with..!?), how many different setting options are there for adjusting that setting? Can I adjust the offset in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32?
Same for Velocity Depth, can I adjust it in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32?
Last edited by vertig0spin on Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by pax-eterna » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:51 pm

anotherscott wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:18 pm
pax-eterna wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:11 pm
ALL, of which require the user to "go through hoops" to achieve what should be a rather simple task! Which was sorta my point!
I don't know... Selecting a Song to call it up with its associated Performance doesn't sound like much of a hoop, even if you'd rather select a Performance to call it up with its associated Song. Kind of 6 of one, half dozen of the other?
No, sorry Scott, not what I was talking about/meant....the "hoops" were the steps needed to take to do this...to actually get your MIDI/WAV backing tracks linked in the first place.

I'm not sure about others, but I have about 970 songs on my setlist rotations, and I also encourage people to call requests, so being able to have a track load with a Performance dynamically is good. At the moment I use the iPad, but it would be really cool to use dedicated MODX MIDIs instead!
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by pax-eterna » Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:52 pm

Another suggestion, getting away from the above, would be to have a numerical search option!
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by Stevie18 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:46 pm
How slow is it to find and load a song? If I finish song1 and want to load song2, how long would it take?
Depends on how many songs you have and where you start. If you start with one song and then select the next one which is on the current page of songs, then it is 4 clicks on the screen to start the song, taking roughly 3 seconds. If you have to scroll to a different page then it takes longer.
Do you know if it is the same on the Montage as the MODX, or does the Montage allow you to assign songs to buttons on the keyboard, so that you can just press that button and it loads the song more quickly?
Montage is exactly the same in that aspect.
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:42 pm
for each performance you can select a User Audition from the list in the same screen
and you do not have that stupid limitation that you cannot leave the performance recorder screen while it is playing :-).
So, if I open a song from 'Live Set' favorites and start playing it(I assume it must open the Performance Recorder screen?), I can't leave the performance recorder screen?
You cannot select a song from the "Live Set". You have to select the performance. If you mean that and you talk about the audition, then no, you do not have to be in that screen. You select the performance and press the audition button, that's it.
Can I easily switch to a different 'Live Set' performance while the song is playing, or am I basically stuck on that particular performance while the song is still playing?
If you talk about the actual song mode, not the audition mode, then you are stuck. But you can switch to different scenes.
If the answer is "I'm stuck on that performance while the song is still playing" and I need to have a couple of different sounds to switch between throughout the song, can I link two different multi parts together and switch between them using the SuperKnob while the Song plays out using numerous other parts in that performance? For example, if I have a song playing parts 1-4 (Drums, Bass, Guitar1, Guitar2) with "Kbd Ctrl" turned off on those parts, and have parts 5-6 (Piano-Strings) with "Kbd Ctrl" turned on, as well as parts 7-8 (layered synth solo parts) also with "Kbd Ctrl" turned on, can I configure that performance so that the default playable sounds with the SuperKnob to the left is parts 5-6, and then in the middle of the song, turn the SuperKnob to the right to play just parts 7-8 for a solo, and then go back to parts 5-6?
You can switch between scenes using the scene buttons. You can also use the Super Knob and the AF buttons. Those things can also be stored with the song. And of course, you have 16 tracks and can use those in different parts of the song. So if you can have everything pre-canned and do not need manual intervention then everything is easy. You can also mute and unmute tracks while playing. You cannot switch on and off Kbd Ctrl from that screen.

But again, the audition mode is also there and does not have those restrictions. And then, if you really want to be flexible, the arpeggios are also there.
Regarding the Velocity Offset (which if I understand correctly, moves the velocity layers that you trigger either up or down for the same attack force you strike the keys with..!?), how many different setting options are there for adjusting that setting? Can I adjust the offset in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32?
Same for Velocity Depth, can I adjust it in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32?
You mean for the audition? There you can move it and or down -1 increments from -63 to 64. Or do you mean unrelated to the song mode? Then it is 127 in 1 increments for both.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:21 am

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
You cannot select a song from the "Live Set". You have to select the performance. If you mean that and you talk about the audition, then no, you do not have to be in that screen. You select the performance and press the audition button, that's it.
I thought the Live Set was like favorites when playing live, whereby you organize and select the Songs that were recorded, but it sounds like there is no way to organize Songs in a Live Set list like I thought, and that a Set list is basically organizing Performances..!?

What is an audition? Is it basically selecting a song from within a Performance and replaying the song, but they just call it an Audition while in a Performance?

Basically, what is the difference between Song Mode and Audition Mode?

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
If you talk about the actual song mode, not the audition mode, then you are stuck. But you can switch to different scenes.
What are Scenes and how are they related to Song Mode? Are Scenes accessible from a Song or from a Performance?

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
You can also mute and unmute tracks while playing. You cannot switch on and off Kbd Ctrl from that screen
If a song is recorded & then saved with all tracks (parts 1-4) set with Kbd Ctrl off at the end, except the parts that will be played live (parts 5-8), will the song by default still have those first tracks (parts 1-4) with Kbd Ctrl off? Or do you need to Mute those tracks so they don't sound out while you hit the keys?

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
But again, the audition mode is also there and does not have those restrictions.
If using audition mode, are the tracks (parts 1-4) defaulted with Kbd Ctrl off as well, as was saved in the Song originally?

Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
"Regarding the Velocity Offset (which if I understand correctly, moves the velocity layers that you trigger either up or down for the same attack force you strike the keys with..!?), how many different setting options are there for adjusting that setting? Can I adjust the offset in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32? Same for Velocity Depth, can I adjust it in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32?"

You mean for the audition? There you can move it and or down -1 increments from -63 to 64. Or do you mean unrelated to the song mode? Then it is 127 in 1 increments for both.
Sorry, I made that confusing. It had nothing to do with Song Mode or Audition Mode. I was referring to programming/editing of a Part/Element.

Are you saying that both Velocity Offset and Velocity Depth are extremely granular & microtunable by increments of '1' and not by increments of '32'? That instead of setting the Velocity Curve to 'Soft' for a part/element, I could more finely tune the Velocity via 'Velocity Depth' & 'Velocity Offset' instead?
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by Stevie18 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:18 am

pax-eterna wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 6:11 pm
ALL, of which require the user to "go through hoops" to achieve what should be a rather simple task! Which was sorta my point!
Agreed, setting all this up is a lot of work. And I it certainly depends on the use case, how much you rely on sequenced content in your live performance etc. if you want to use a computer on stage or not. I play almost exclusively live with some drum arpeggio and maybe 1-2 songs. I am not comfortable going though the extra hoops of having a notebook on stage. That's just too much hassle, you need some stand, potentially a power supply the cabling. And at least Cubase which I am using is not really suited for this kind of usage (or I don't know some special mode for live). So for my use case the performance recorder is just fine. For you the notebook sounds like the right solution, certainly. There are cases in between which require personal judgement.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by Stevie18 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:35 am

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:21 am
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
You cannot select a song from the "Live Set". You have to select the performance. If you mean that and you talk about the audition, then no, you do not have to be in that screen. You select the performance and press the audition button, that's it.
I thought the Live Set was like favorites when playing live, whereby you organize and select the Songs that were recorded, but it sounds like there is no way to organize Songs in a Live Set list like I thought, and that a Set list is basically organizing Performances..!?
It is only for performances, not for songs. For songs you have no such thing. You have to go into performance recorder mode press "Load" and select the song from the list of songs. It will then load the associated performance and then you can start it.
What is an audition? Is it basically selecting a song from within a Performance and replaying the song, but they just call it an Audition while in a Performance?
The auditions were initially meant as a kind of demo mode for performances. Each performance has one associated audition phrase. There is a hardware button which will start playing the audition. Since a recent OS update you can convert all your songs to auditions which are then available for selection as a performance's audition.

Now, since the audition can be a whole song you select, it is basically more songs you can have and a very simple way to store them with the performance and trigger them.
Basically, what is the difference between Song Mode and Audition Mode?
Audition is playing songs which belong to the performance and are selected with the performance. You can start them with one hardware button. They have slight restrictions which I mentioned before but in all other aspects are the same as songs - to my knowledge. But in addition you are not locked in to the performance mode screen when using auditions, so in some aspects it gives you more. For me they are ideal for live playing...
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
If you talk about the actual song mode, not the audition mode, then you are stuck. But you can switch to different scenes.
What are Scenes and how are they related to Song Mode? Are Scenes accessible from a Song or from a Performance?
Scenes are snapshots for various things you can adapt with the buttons, faders, knobs and some other stuff. You can store for example volume, reverb send, variation send, eq settings, mute arpeggios and much more per part. You can store up to 8 scenes and switch between them with the scene hardware buttons. Very convenient for live playing.
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
You can also mute and unmute tracks while playing. You cannot switch on and off Kbd Ctrl from that screen
If a song is recorded & then saved with all tracks (parts 1-4) set with Kbd Ctrl off at the end, except the parts that will be played live (parts 5-8), will the song by default still have those first tracks (parts 1-4) with Kbd Ctrl off? Or do you need to Mute those tracks so they don't sound out while you hit the keys?
A song is not stored with all those settings, but a performance is. The performance stores the Kbd Ctrl setting, so I guess if you switch Kbd Ctrl off for parts they will not be triggered by the keyboard but only by the sequencer. And this state is stored with the performance. In any case, if you prepare the songs as MIDI files, you could use parts 9-16 which are not triggered by the keyboard anyway and leave parts 1-8 for live playing. So that question would be moot.
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
But again, the audition mode is also there and does not have those restrictions.
If using audition mode, are the tracks (parts 1-4) defaulted with Kbd Ctrl off as well, as was saved in the Song originally?
See above, this is part of the performance.
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:21 pm
"Regarding the Velocity Offset (which if I understand correctly, moves the velocity layers that you trigger either up or down for the same attack force you strike the keys with..!?), how many different setting options are there for adjusting that setting? Can I adjust the offset in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32? Same for Velocity Depth, can I adjust it in increments of 1 or is it only in increments of 32?"

You mean for the audition? There you can move it and or down -1 increments from -63 to 64. Or do you mean unrelated to the song mode? Then it is 127 in 1 increments for both.
Sorry, I made that confusing. It had nothing to do with Song Mode or Audition Mode. I was referring to programming/editing of a Part/Element.

Are you saying that both Velocity Offset and Velocity Depth are extremely granular & microtunable by increments of '1' and not by increments of '32'? That instead of setting the Velocity Curve to 'Soft' for a part/element, I could more finely tune the Velocity via 'Velocity Depth' & 'Velocity Offset' instead?
Yes. Although not instead, but also in addition.

As a general hint, now that you start diving into all those detailed aspects would be a good time to read the manual and / or see the tons of tutorial videos which are available about pretty much everything on yamahasynth.com and Youtube. Note that most if not all videos for the Montage also apply to the MODX.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by anotherscott » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 pm

Stevie18 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:18 am
I am not comfortable going though the extra hoops of having a notebook on stage. That's just too much hassle,.
There's also possibly an "in between" solution of using a iPad/tablet, which I think is less hassle than laptop.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by Stevie18 » Mon Oct 29, 2018 9:31 pm

Agreed that's much less hassle. I am actually using an iPad for the scores, already. Might try it as a sequencer. Not much need at this point on my side, though.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by pax-eterna » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:32 pm

anotherscott wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 pm
Stevie18 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:18 am
I am not comfortable going though the extra hoops of having a notebook on stage. That's just too much hassle,.
There's also possibly an "in between" solution of using a iPad/tablet, which I think is less hassle than laptop.
Yep me too. I've been using one for several years. Apparrently On Song chart app will actually play MIDI files linked to a chart?! I am using UnrealBook which, like most, plays MP3 tracks but not MIDI tracks. I think OnSong might bear some investigation ;)
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:44 pm

Thanks for all the great info everyone! It's hard reading the manuals and understanding stuff fully, as I don't have a keyboard yet, but this gives me the right information to base my decision on.

Stevie18 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:35 am
Each performance has one associated audition phrase. There is a hardware button which will start playing the audition. Since a recent OS update you can convert all your songs to auditions which are then available for selection as a performance's audition.
Stevie18 wrote:
Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:42 pm
You record the songs you need or import the MIDI files. Then you go to some performance and press edit. In the "General Tab" of the "Common/Audio" page you have a button named "Update User Auditions". When you select that it will load *all* your songs to "User Auditions". It will overwrite all previous "User Auditions" for all performances, so make sure to keep all songs you need to have in the User Auditions around before pressing the button (the songs will of course remain there).
Does this mean that each time you record a new song for a particular performance, then hit the "update user auditions" button, that all previous "User Adutions" for all Performances will be overwritten and lost, and you will then need to re-associate each audition again to each performance each time. Or is there another way to add a new song to auditions for selection in a performance without having to re-associate everything in other performances?

Stevie18 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:35 am
In any case, if you prepare the songs as MIDI files, you could use parts 9-16 which are not triggered by the keyboard anyway and leave parts 1-8 for live playing. So that question would be moot.
I had read that and I was planning to do all sequenced stuff on 9-16, so thanks for re-affirming that for me.

Stevie18 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:35 am
As a general hint, now that you start diving into all those detailed aspects would be a good time to read the manual and / or see the tons of tutorial videos which are available about pretty much everything on yamahasynth.com and Youtube. Note that most if not all videos for the Montage also apply to the MODX.
I've watched some tutorial videos and read parts of the online manuals, but it's difficult to truly grasp it all fully without a keyboard in front of me that I can work through the lessons on...
I am still trying to decide between the Korg and Yamaha, but and I leaning quite heavily towards the Yamaha. That's why I am interested in such details about the Yamaha. I haven't really asked much about the Korg and nothing about the setup/programming/etc.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by Stevie18 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:09 am

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:44 pm
Does this mean that each time you record a new song for a particular performance, then hit the "update user auditions" button, that all previous "User Adutions" for all Performances will be overwritten and lost, and you will then need to re-associate each audition again to each performance each time. Or is there another way to add a new song to auditions for selection in a performance without having to re-associate everything in other performances?
Actually no. What I am seeing is that it will keep the auditions. I guess what happens is that it uses the order of songs to determine the audition number. Thus you get the same audition number / song mapping again. Probably until you delete one of the songs in the middle. I have added songs over time but the auditions are still matching.
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Re: MODX - Make or Break Questions

Unread post by Stevie18 » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:15 am

pax-eterna wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:32 pm
anotherscott wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:48 pm
Stevie18 wrote:
Mon Oct 29, 2018 8:18 am
I am not comfortable going though the extra hoops of having a notebook on stage. That's just too much hassle,.
There's also possibly an "in between" solution of using a iPad/tablet, which I think is less hassle than laptop.
Yep me too. I've been using one for several years. Apparently On Song chart app will actually play MIDI files linked to a chart?! I am using UnrealBook which, like most, plays MP3 tracks but not MIDI tracks. I think OnSong might bear some investigation ;)
I am using "SongBook+" linked over Bluetooth. Quite nice! And it can play MIDI tracks as well. The nicest part is that it can build an ad-hoc network with the other iPads the band to quickly share songs.
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