MODX8 vs Montage 8

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

Moderators: Derek, parametric, Saul

User avatar
kingy75
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:36 am
Australia

MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by kingy75 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:08 am

Hi all,

Not really sure of the correct forum to post this in - please delete if inappropriate.

I’ve recently purchased a Roland FA-08 and am not completely satisfied with it. The main reason being that the sound cuts off when changing Studio Sets (Performances in Yamaha terminology) and the methods to get around that aren’t satisfactory either; even when using keyboard switch groups the master volume resets to maximum no matter what my expression pedal is at. Useless.

Plus the inability to load my own samples and play them on the keyboard is proving to be a problem.
I bought the FA-08 as I liked the action over the MOXF8 but I’m now regretting the decision…

So my questions re the MODX8 and Montage 8 are:

* How many parts can I use in one Performance (within a Live Set)? e.g. the FA-08 lets me layer up to 16 sounds in one Studio Set.
* Can I change Performances/Live Sets using a footswitch?
* Can I load my own samples in and play them on the keyboard?

Thanks
User avatar
Fleer
Member
Member
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2018 11:12 pm
United States of America

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by Fleer » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:10 am

As for samples, there’s a (temporarily free) SampleRobot Montage application that’ll also work with the MODX.
But keep in mind that both MOXF8 and MODX8 share the same keyboard action (which I do like a lot).
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10448
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by Saul » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:27 am

Hi kingy75, welcome to yamahamusicians.com :)

MODX Performances consist of 16 Parts maximum.
Up to eight Parts can be used as Layer Parts with all the Performance's features. The Factory Performances exclusively use the actual Performance Parts 1 - 8. The "Kbd Ctrl" function is always enabled for these Parts. Thus, by default all Parts function as Layer or Split Parts.

If required you can add the Parts 9-16 in the "Mixing" display as additional Mixing Parts by using the "Part 1 - 16" function.

Also bear in mind that you have simultaneous control of up to 128 parameters in a single Performance via the Super Knob.

You can indeed import your own samples. As Fleer pointed out one of the best ways of doing that is via Sample Robot of which there is currently a free 'montage' version available and of course that works fine with the MODX.

Keybed as Fleer also mentioned is the same as the MOXF8 or at least as far as I am aware but some people have said it is an improved version and it could well be but I don't have the MOXF8 to compare with. All I can say is it feels very nice to play on :)

I have not tried it but I believe you can indeed change performances using a foot switch. Perhaps someone else can confirm that?
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
kingy75
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:36 am
Australia

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by kingy75 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am

Great info, thanks so much for your reply.

A few more questions come to mind...

* just so I have my thinking right - MODX Performances exist within a Live Set, is that correct? And there can be a number of Performances stored within a Live Set?

* And for the most part, it's possible to switch between Performances & Live Sets without the sound cutting out?

* On my Roland FA-08 the volume resets to maximum whenever I change Studio Sets or keyboard switch groups which is extremely inconvenient. Does this happen on the MODX8 when changing Performances or Live Sets?
Last edited by kingy75 on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
anotherscott
Member
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:36 pm
United States of America

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by anotherscott » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:21 am

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:08 am
So my questions re the MODX8 and Montage 8 are:

* How many parts can I use in one Performance (within a Live Set)? e.g. the FA-08 lets me layer up to 16 sounds in one Studio Set.
Right, FA has 16 sounds, each of which can have a single insert effect. On the MODX and Montage, you also have performances of 16 parts (ETA: but only 8 playable at a time directly from the internal keyboard), each can have two insert effects on a Montage, 12 of the 16 can have the dual effects on a MODX. However if you want to avoid sound cutoffs when switching from one set to another (one of the big things that bothers you about the FA), you need to stick with no more than 8 parts on a Montage performance, no more than 4 parts on a MODX performance.
kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:08 am
* Can I load my own samples in and play them on the keyboard?
Yes.

Other 88-key keyboards that let you load your own samples and play them on the keyboard AND have seamless sound transitions are:
* Korg Kronos - 16 sounds per combi, seamless transitions even using all 16 sounds, which can have up to 12 insert effects among them
* Roland Juno DS - 16 sound per combi, seamless transitions even using all 16 sounds, which can have up to 3 insert effects among them
* Kurzweil Forte - 16 sounds per multi, seamless transitions even using all 16 sounds (maybe not on organ?), which can have up to 32 effect units among them
* Nord Stage 3 - 6 sounds per preset (2 organ, 2 piano library, 2 synth/sample library sounds), kind of 6 effects per preset; also, though you can load your own samples and play them from the keyboard, they are limited to a single velocity layer.

The Montage/MODX, Kronos, and Nord hold sounds through a single patch transition... if you switch to a third performance (or whatever the equivalent is), any remaining held notes from the first performance will cut off. By contrast, I believe the Roland and Kurzweil can hold sounds through multiple transitions. OTOH, I think the transitions on the Montage/MODX, Kronos, and Nord are always completely seamless with no glitches, whereas I think that on the Roland and Kurzweil, while the sounds don't cut off entirely, you might sometimes hear audible glitches in the otherwise seamless transitions because of changing effects.

This is only a rough comparison, particularly as the details of the effects structures can vary quite a bit. For example, sometimes a single insert effect on a board can be actually include more than one effect, or conversely, sometimes it can take multiple effect units to create a single effect. Sometimes EQ can be an effect, other times it's a separate function. Sometimes you can gang up all the effects on a single part if you want to, other times you're limited as to how many effects you can put on a single part. And so forth. Also, I don't have first hand experience doing this on all of these boards, so I may have missed something, but I think it's basically right. (Corrections welcome!)
Last edited by anotherscott on Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
anotherscott
Member
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:36 pm
United States of America

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by anotherscott » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:28 am

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
* just so I have my thinking right - MODX Performances exist within a Live Set, is that correct?
Not really, Performances are just Performances. They don't have to be used in any Live Sets. Live Sets are a way of grouping Performances together on a single screen for quick access. You can kind of think of the buttons in a Live Set as being equivalent to Windows Shortcuts (or Mac Aliases) on the Desktop. These things are all essentially just pointers to get to some elsewhere-located item more quickly.
kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
And there can be a number of Performances stored within a Live Set?
16
kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
* And for the most part, it's possible to switch between Performances & Live Sets without the sound cutting out?
Live Sets aren't sounds, they are sets of Performances. You can switch between Performances without sound cutting out as long as both the Performance you're switching from and the Performance you're switching to have no more than 8 parts on a Montage, or 4 parts on an MODX.
User avatar
Stevie18
Product Specialist
Product Specialist
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:49 pm
Germany

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by Stevie18 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:34 am

Performances do not exist within the Live Set. The Live Set is just a means to organize performances for quick access. Like a quick dial list in a phone. You can use Live Sets for example to have a set list for a specific gig. There is enough room for many different live sets (8) and each live set has room for organizing up to 256 performances in pages of 16. Should be plenty of room for most...

You cannot switch between performances and Live Sets as the Live Set is just a quick access for performances. You can switch between different performances without the sound cutting off under certain circumstances: The performance may have only a limited number of parts in it. There is an important distinction between the Montage and the MODX: In the MODX you can have only 4 parts in the performance from which you switch and to which you switch. If you have 5 parts in either of which the sound will cut off. For the Montage that limit is 8. So if that's important for you you need to be careful to select the right model!

As for how many sounds you may have sounding at the same time, that's a pretty complex thing to answer: As Saul writes it is 16 parts at the same time but only 8 of them can be controlled by the keyboard. The other 8 are usable over MIDI, only! BUT: Each part consists of 8 elements if it is AWM2. So it is totally feasible to have up to 8 sounds in one part, if each of those sounds requires only one velocity layer. For the pianos that's certainly not the case but for things like sawtooth sounds that is the case. There are quite a few preset performances which use only one part but have multiple sounds in it coming from different elements in that part. Consider that filters, LFOs, envelopes and oscillators are all per element so there are 8 of those per part. So you can have up to 64 elements triggered by the keyboard at the same time all with their individually configured filters etc. There is one caveat, though: All elements in one part share the same two effects (although elements can opt not not use them on an individual basis).

Note also that some pianos require more than one part. For example the Imperial Grand requires 3 parts to handle all velocity layers and keyboard zones. For the CFX concert grand there are versions which require 3 but there are slightly simplified versions which require only one part.

All in all the answer as to how many sounds you can use at the same time ranges somewhere between 1 for an extremely complex sound and 128 if you count the number of elements and figure in MIDI input.

(Sorry for the overlap with anotherscott's post - mid flight collision. On the other hand it is good to see that the answers are very consistent... ((i)) )
anotherscott
Member
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:36 pm
United States of America

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by anotherscott » Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:55 am

Stevie18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:34 am
As Saul writes it is 16 parts at the same time but only 8 of them can be controlled by the keyboard. The other 8 are usable over MIDI, only!
Right, thanks for reminding me, I'll fix that. ;-) Good other points as well. Though I feel that editing individual parts at the element level in order to get more simultaneous sounds is probably more effort than what many/most people will want to get involved with.
User avatar
Kal1n_M
Member
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:23 am
Contact:
Bulgaria

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by Kal1n_M » Thu Nov 01, 2018 5:36 am

Guys, I think there have been some little inaccuracies here and there, so I will try to be more precise:
kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
* just so I have my thinking right - MODX Performances exist within a Live Set, is that correct? And there can be a number of Performances stored within a Live Set?
This has been mostly covered, but here is my input: Performances are the "voices" or "patches" in Montage/MODX. They can be single part or multipart, including layers, splits, motion controls, arpeggios and whatnot. On both Montage and MODX you can directly control from the keyboard up to 8 parts, the other 8 can be controlled by external MIDI devices (including computers, tablets, etc.).

Live Sets are just lists to organize you Performances. There are 8 User Live Set banks on Montage/MODX and each Live Set bank can have up to 256 Performances (16 pages x 16 Performances) for a total of 2048 User Live Set slots. On top of that, the whole User area can be exported and loaded back as a library... and there are 8 library slots, that means another 64 Live Set banks with 16384 Live Set slots are available!

You can set a foot pedal to switch to next Performance within the current Live Set bank.

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
* And for the most part, it's possible to switch between Performances & Live Sets without the sound cutting out?
In order to use seamless sound switching, you should use performances with up to 8 parts in Montage or up to 4 parts in MODX, and every part can have 2 insert effects. That said, 4 parts can be more or less than 4 "instruments". As already mentioned, some instruments may use more than one part for extended dynamic range. At the same time, since every part has 8 oscillators, you can program multi-voice layers and splits even within a single part... It is up to you!

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
* On my Roland FA-08 the volume resets to maximum whenever I change Studio Sets or keyboard switch groups which is extremely inconvenient. Does this happen on the MODX8 when changing Performances or Live Sets?
Each Live Set slot has a volume parameter that will overwrite the Performance volume. You can use it for fine balancing of the volume while switching between different Performances in a Live set, without that actually changing the Performance itself. Technically, you can have the same Performance with different volumes in different Live Set slots.

Yeah, that's it... Keep the questions coming :lol:
User avatar
Stevie18
Product Specialist
Product Specialist
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2018 4:49 pm
Germany

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by Stevie18 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:01 am

anotherscott wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:55 am
Stevie18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:34 am
As Saul writes it is 16 parts at the same time but only 8 of them can be controlled by the keyboard. The other 8 are usable over MIDI, only!
Right, thanks for reminding me, I'll fix that. ;-) Good other points as well. Though I feel that editing individual parts at the element level in order to get more simultaneous sounds is probably more effort than what many/most people will want to get involved with.
Absolutely agree. I have taken a few of the presets which have two sounds in one element, though, and used them in some performances. I guess for most people it is 8 sounds at most. But I just wanted to point out that even if you have only 4 parts when you want SSS on the MODX, you can still get more sounds if absolutely needed.
User avatar
kingy75
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:36 am
Australia

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by kingy75 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:01 pm

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:49 am
* On my Roland FA-08 the volume resets to maximum whenever I change Studio Sets or keyboard switch groups which is extremely inconvenient. Does this happen on the MODX8 when changing Performances or Live Sets?
Each Live Set slot has a volume parameter that will overwrite the Performance volume. You can use it for fine balancing of the volume while switching between different Performances in a Live set, without that actually changing the Performance itself. Technically, you can have the same Performance with different volumes in different Live Set slots.
So...if I'm using an FC7 to control volume, and if I have it at 50% and switch Performances, will there be a volume change in the output level?
User avatar
kingy75
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:36 am
Australia

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by kingy75 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:05 pm

anotherscott wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:55 am
Stevie18 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 3:34 am
As Saul writes it is 16 parts at the same time but only 8 of them can be controlled by the keyboard. The other 8 are usable over MIDI, only!
So the MODX has a maximum of 8 parts to be used in a Performance? Or am I misunderstanding?
User avatar
kingy75
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:36 am
Australia

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by kingy75 » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:17 pm

Another question! How many User Performances does the MODX8 have?

Thanks so much for all your advice, it's very helpful :)
anotherscott
Member
Member
Posts: 95
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2013 6:36 pm
United States of America

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by anotherscott » Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:43 pm

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:05 pm
So the MODX has a maximum of 8 parts to be used in a Performance? Or am I misunderstanding?
Effectively yes, 8 parts, if you're talking about what you can play simultaneously from its own keys. However you can trigger up to 8 additional parts from an external second keyboard (depending in part on the capabilities of the second keyboard) or a sequencer.
kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:17 pm
Another question! How many User Performances does the MODX8 have?
approx. 2000 (ETA: Whoops, nope, 5760!)
Last edited by anotherscott on Sun Nov 18, 2018 4:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
Kal1n_M
Member
Member
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:23 am
Contact:
Bulgaria

Re: MODX8 vs Montage 8

Unread post by Kal1n_M » Thu Nov 01, 2018 6:58 pm

kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:01 pm
So...if I'm using an FC7 to control volume, and if I have it at 50% and switch Performances, will there be a volume change in the output level?
I am not sure what do you mean... If you hold performance voices that you have controlled with volume pedal, they should not change volume when you change performance. The new performance you switch to, of course, will not receive any CC messages before you load it, this is not how MIDI controllers work. It will start with the volume you programmed for its Live Set slot.
anotherscott wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:43 pm
kingy75 wrote:
Thu Nov 01, 2018 2:17 pm
Another question! How many User Performances does the MODX8 have?
approx. 2000
No, this is the number of the preset performances. The User bank can hold 640 performances. And then again, each of the 8 library slots can hold 640 as well.
Post Reply

Return to “Yamaha MODX Forum”