Speakers

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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Re: Speakers

Unread post by Saul » Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:41 pm

Whilst there are a lot of variables involved in choosing speakers, including how good your own hearing is, I would still go for a set of speakers that has the lowest bass response because quite simply put, if you choose something that has a low end response of 55Hz then anything below that means the speaker simply is not capable of responding. You lose the opportunity to hear those frequencies that may be there on an original recording or other audio source.

Human hearing goes down to 20Hz in general and as low as 12Hz under lab conditions, again depending on your hearing.

Having said that, there sometimes can be a lot of things that might get in the way between the source and the speakers. These could muddy the waters somewhat so, unless you have a signal chain that is not going to filter or degrade the source, the benefits of a few Hz difference could well be lost.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by anotherscott » Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:52 pm

Saul wrote:
Fri Jan 04, 2019 7:41 pm
f you choose something that has a low end response of 55Hz then anything below that means the speaker simply is not capable of responding.
Not necessarily... it means it responds at a lower level. JBL 305 and HS7 are both down 10 dB at 43 Hz. That doesn't mean they don't reproduce 42 Hz... but they will reproduce it down by more than ten 10 dB from that speaker's reference level.

But the point is, if speaker X is down 3 dB at 49 Hz and speaker is down 3 dB at 52 Hz, that doesn't mean speaker X is necessarily preferable. It's response could be less flat, it could have less max volume or less headroom... There are plenty of speakers with lots of low end that can still make a piano patch sound terrible compared to some other speaker with less bass response.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by RatherBeGigging » Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:04 am

Blokksberg,
Do you have a local music store where you can listen for yourself to some studio monitors? Bring some music that you know well.
There are lots of great choices available- JBL 305 and Yamaha and HS7 are very popular and excellent options. Let your ears make the decision.

I'm not sure you let us know how you will be using your MODX and speakers? Especially if you plan on doing any recording or mixing,
do yourself a favor and get some studio monitors- that's what they are designed for.

Let us know what you decide!
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by Normhart » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:10 am

I understand that the iLOUD monitors are not in the same class as the JBL 305. In my case, it’s more an issue of what purpose I have for the monitors and how much I was willing to pay at this time. I’m just not doing anything currently that would warrant the cost of the higher end units. I just wanted something that gave me decent performance for casual playing. Maybe in the near future, when I start focusing more and more on recording and more critical tasks, I’ll definitely be considering products like the JBL. Also, I agree perfectly with not getting hung up on bass spec - in fact, just the opposite, I was saying that it wasn’t that big an issue with me considering the type of sounds I use.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by Saul » Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:07 pm

RatherBeGigging wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 5:04 am
Blokksberg,
Do you have a local music store where you can listen for yourself to some studio monitors? Bring some music that you know well.
There are lots of great choices available- JBL 305 and Yamaha and HS7 are very popular and excellent options. Let your ears make the decision.
That's probably the best advice. Let your own ears make the decision. In the end it doesn't matter what the specs are as long as YOU are happy with the end result :)
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by pologuy » Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:43 pm

Not to hijack this thread....

But how would one go about hooking these Yamaha NS-777 speakers up with the MODX8...?

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_v ... index.html
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by anotherscott » Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:19 pm

pologuy wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 7:43 pm
how would one go about hooking these Yamaha NS-777 speakers up with the MODX8...?
You cannot connect them directly, you'll need some kind of amplifier in between. Do you currently have those speakers hooked up to your stereo/home theater system? If so, you can connect your MODX the same way you would connect the analog outputs of other sound sources (CD player, DVD player, etc.). You're not going to get live-with-a-band kinds of volume levels, but presumably you're not looking at this for that purpose.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by Kal1n_M » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:33 am

anotherscott wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:19 pm
you can connect your MODX the same way you would connect the analog outputs of other sound sources (CD player, DVD player, etc.).
That's not necessarily a good advice!
MODX output should be rated +4 dBu (even if it has unbalanced outputs!) and while it may be coming a bit low on volume compared to the balanced outputs of Montage, it's still too hot for a -10 dBV Line-In`s of a typical home entertainment system. Simply put, connecting your MODX to your home audio system MAY damage your home audio system. Or at least, it may distort the sound.
Of course, you can go around that by using MODX on low Main volume, so it does not output it's full electric potential, but this means that you have the necessary knowledge and you are ready to accept the possible damage caused by miscalculation.

By all means, a Pro grade instrument, such as MODX, deserves a Pro grade audio equipment.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by pologuy » Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:04 pm

Kal1n_M wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:33 am
anotherscott wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 8:19 pm
you can connect your MODX the same way you would connect the analog outputs of other sound sources (CD player, DVD player, etc.).
That's not necessarily a good advice!
MODX output should be rated +4 dBu (even if it has unbalanced outputs!) and while it may be coming a bit low on volume compared to the balanced outputs of Montage, it's still too hot for a -10 dBV Line-In`s of a typical home entertainment system. Simply put, connecting your MODX to your home audio system MAY damage your home audio system. Or at least, it may distort the sound.
Of course, you can go around that by using MODX on low Main volume, so it does not output it's full electric potential, but this means that you have the necessary knowledge and you are ready to accept the possible damage caused by miscalculation.

By all means, a Pro grade instrument, such as MODX, deserves a Pro grade audio equipment.
OK... so how do I do it... :D

With this?

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/proaudi ... index.html
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by anotherscott » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:21 am

Kal1n_M wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:33 am
That's not necessarily a good advice!
MODX output should be rated +4 dBu
Hmm, I didn't think that was a +4 output. Still...
Kal1n_M wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:33 am
Of course, you can go around that by using MODX on low Main volume, so it does not output it's full electric potential, but this means that you have the necessary knowledge
Wouldn't the necessary knowledge here merely be to keep the MODX volume knob low, and to rely more on the amp's volume control than the Yamaha's if you need more volume?

Still, I'm not suggesting this as a recommended way to go... I'm just saying, if this is what someone has in their living room or whatever, and they want to play through it, they can. Which brings me to...
pologuy wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:04 pm
OK... so how do I do it... :D
I'd say, don't toss money into trying to use speakers that aren't designed for this application. Get more suitable speakers instead.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by Saul » Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:52 am

No need to overcomplicate things here. It's very simple if you want to use hi-fi and it has an input you can plug your MODX into.

However I would turn the volume up on the keyboard and use the hi-fi volume to then control your final output. It isn't going to damage anything. Of course results may vary depending on what you have plugged into.

So hi-fi or av amp would work but it is not ideal. Active monitors of one sort or another are the best way to go.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by pologuy » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:09 am

I am not going to get better, fuller, richer sound out of a 3-way speaker with 4 drivers including two 8" woofers, a 5" midrange, and a 1" tweeter versus a 2-way speaker with 2 drivers with one 8" and one 1"...?
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by anotherscott » Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:35 am

pologuy wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:09 am
I am not going to get better, fuller, richer sound out of a 3-way speaker with 4 drivers including two 8" woofers, a 5" midrange, and a 1" tweeter versus a 2-way speaker with 2 drivers with one 8" and one 1"...?
The questions are things like, which will have flatter frequency response, lower distortion when pushed, better handling of transients... and these will favor a quality, biamped speaker designed to be a monitor, over a home stereo/home theater speaker.
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Re: Speakers

Unread post by parametric » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:26 am

I checked the Manual, and the output levels are nowhere to be found in the SPEC -

embarrassing for a board that could well find itself on stage.

There is ONE mention of "Line-Level" within the general text of the Manual.

I would conclude that the MODX series is Consumer Line Level at -10dba . . .

UNLESS there is a setting hidden away in the Menus somewhere? . . . Could be . . . . ?

In a software-centric Board such as the MODX? - So we'll say "undocumented" for the time being . . .
We Musos are quite "Techy" these days - we HAVE to be, given the kit we find ourselves using . . . . :roll:

WHAT HONESTLY is the point of omitting this information . . . . (Stop "Nannying" us, PLEASE!

On my Alesis Fusions (legacied in 2005/6) ALL the INs/OUTs are TRS, including the 8 inputs to the

internal HD Recorder.

The level can be set in software to -10dba OR +4dba.

As to Speakers . . .

Monitor Speakers are really designed for Critical listening in the Studio - where you want to hear

"Rind, Pips and All" - on your way to mix-down, before applying compression, EQ and the like.

They are often regarded as Too Analytical for normal listening - but, as with all things "Audio",

your Ears are the best judge of what sounds "Right" . . . 8-)

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Re: Speakers

Unread post by Saul » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:54 am

parametric wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:26 am

As to Speakers . . .

Monitor Speakers are really designed for Critical listening in the Studio - where you want to hear

"Rind, Pips and All" - on your way to mix-down, before applying compression, EQ and the like.

They are often regarded as Too Analytical for normal listening - but, as with all things "Audio",

your Ears are the best judge of what sounds "Right" . . . 8-)

parametric
That's the important thing here and nicely summed up Chris. Although many of us DO use active monitors they are not ideally suited to playing a keyboard through. Although some monitors are more "media" focused than others and will give a richer sound for a wide variety of sources...which is not what you want for analytical listening when putting a mix together. You want flat, neutral unadulterated sound so you can mix levels, effects etc properly.
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