Usb Driver unstable

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Olivier V.Girard
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Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Olivier V.Girard » Mon Jan 21, 2019 7:58 pm

Hi!

Here's the machine and the problem:

Ryzen R5-2600 cpu
As Rock Motherboard
16GB of ram
AMD Rx 550 video card
Asus Pcie wireless adapter
600W Be Quiet PSU
Only usb devices -> Logitech wireless keyboard and mouse usb transmitter

At one point I had a Maschine Mikro MKII installed with all the drivers which have been removed

Windows 10 x64 Pro
Latest Reaper DAW

Modx8 -> Driver 1.10.4
Firmware V1.10

Problem:

When I boot the computer all is good, I start Reaper and all work great. Then I open Google Chrome and go see a youtube video.

The image start to play but there's a loading sign in the center of the image and no audio. It takes around 5 seconds for the audio to catch up. It does this everytime I press pause or watch a new video.

Once it achieved this "state" I open Reaper again and this time it takes a while to load only to tell me that it can't find the ASIO driver on a pop up warning message.

It does the same if I reverse the order: Boot -> Youtube (work fine) -> Reaper (Can't find ASIO drivers)

It behave the same if I close Reaper before opening youtube or vice-versa.

If I disconnect the usb cable, reconnect it and start a program, it work fine until the condition above are met again.

-------------------------------

It look like the driver is locked to the first program I use and when I open something else the first program won't release the audio driver immediately and cause a delay.

Anyone have encountered this? Any suggestion?

Thanks!
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Saul
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:25 pm

Hi Olivier and welcome to yamahamusicians.com :)

I don't have these problems myself but I use the MODX as the only audio in/out for everything. So in other words there is no clash of drivers.

I think what is happening is exactly as you surmised. Whatever program you open first is taking over the audio and so trying to run another audio driver is causing massive latency etc.

I would try and set your audio in/out to default to the MODX and see what happens.
Saul
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Olivier V.Girard
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Olivier V.Girard » Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:33 pm

Thanks for your answer!

Every other things related to audio are either uninstalled or disabled in Windows "Devices Manager", even hidden ones.

The only audio device is the Modx.

I reinstalled the driver a couple of times following the instructions carefully and the issue still persist.

Looks like there's a conflict with something else.

Maybe I should try disabling other devices one by one and look for a culprit. I know network cards are notorious for this but my PICe wireless card never created any problems on 2 different builds.

I'll take a closer look and post what I find!
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jan 21, 2019 9:57 pm

Ahh I just thought of something! When I say I can use everything just running through the MODX that is not strictly true. I can play videos and work in Final Cut Pro just fine however if I also try to play the keyboard..for example playing along with a video track then no that doesn't work. The keyboard sound will stutter to a halt.

I can of course play the keyboard in Logic, run a track and then play along with that but this is all using the same software.

So not sure if that is the same sort of issue you face?
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Olivier V.Girard » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:00 pm

Oh looks like there's something wrong with sharing the Modx driver?

Could it be related to something the Modx don't want to let go of?

Like the clock or something?

My THR amp which also use a Steinberg driver doesn't have this issue at all but it's a far simpler device.

Thanks for your help I appreciate a lot!
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:08 pm

I seem to remember having the same issues with the Montage and MX. They could stream audio back and forth over usb just fine in any DAW I was using. I could play youtube videos ok and put all the other sounds of my computer through them but...as soon as I touch a key everything stopped IF I were using multiple pieces of software at the same time.

So I am guessing that the driver cannot cope with pushing audio from the keyboard through to the computer at the same time audio is coming the other way from the computer.

It kind of makes sense. Usb can handle a lot but I have a feeling it get's swamped in this situation.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Olivier V.Girard » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:11 pm

The only thing I find strange is I don't touch the keyboard at all and the audio streaming from the computer get problems on it's own... I'll try to rule out any possible driver conflicts but I haven't been lucky so far...
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jan 21, 2019 10:14 pm

mmm...need to do some testing here. I'm in the middle of some videos and it's guitars all over the place so no room to have the keyboard plugged in but will try and find some time tomorrow to take a look.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Mon Jan 21, 2019 11:14 pm

I had a similar(?) problem with audio on my computer last year. At first I thought it was just a problem between Cubase and my keyboard, but then I went to use Musescore and got an error message that mentioned the Steinberg driver, so I did some web searching and found some forum posts about a major Windows 10 update (October Creators Update?) causing a problem with the Steinberg driver. The solution was to uninstall that driver, make sure you have the latest version, and reinstall it. I know you said you’ve installed and reinstalled, but make sure you uninstall it first, and I think there may have been some trick to how to reinstall it, like starting up Musescore and then letting it install the driver. Anyway, you might try searching for something like “Windows 10 update Steinberg driver Musescore” to see if you can find anything helpful. I don’t know if you even use Musescore but it just so happened that the only solution I found was in reference to an error message in Musescore.
Michael Rideout
Current keyboards: Yamaha YPT-400, PSR-E433, PSR-E443, PSR-EW400, MX49 BK
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Previous keyboards: Farfisa Matador 611; Casio CTK-710
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by pax-eterna » Tue Jan 22, 2019 2:17 am

Just go to Control Panel, Sounds, select the drivers (you should really do this for all of them on the system) right click on the driver select Properties, then select the Advanced tab, and de-select exclusive mode.

Edited to add: The explanation for this is some drivers are not written very well and have a hard time "releasing" from a previous app and continue using memory threads which eventually run out which causes the driver to fall over. When you set them to Exclusive Mode, you are virtually telling the OS that "this or that" app has total control over the drivers.

FWIW I also do not have the MODX audio as the system default, although there is no hard evidence having it as default causes it to glitch as long as you have sounds (as in system sounds) set to off as well.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by ZT Scheer » Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:22 pm

ASIO is not well suited to shifting focus from program to program, or maintaining input from multiple programs. This is especially true when various CODECs might need to be in use. It's not at all designed to be your sole audio device.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by Kal1n_M » Tue Jan 22, 2019 5:00 pm

The point is, the ASIO driver has nothing to do with the regular Windows applications like your web browser or your media player. Windows is using a standard USB audio driver for that. ASIO driver is in play only with the "Pro" software that can use ASIO drivers and I prefer to use it in exclusive mode.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by pax-eterna » Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:44 pm

ZT Scheer wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 4:22 pm
ASIO is not well suited to shifting focus from program to program, or maintaining input from multiple programs. This is especially true when various CODECs might need to be in use. It's not at all designed to be your sole audio device.
Has nothing to do with ASIO. It is the underlying OS that causes the issues. As per my explanation above.

I can run three different apps all using ASIO. As long as any driver is not set to Exclusive Mode, you should not have any issues...well, related to that anyway. There may be other hardware bottlenecks and glitches that can cause issues.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by ZT Scheer » Tue Feb 05, 2019 6:42 pm

pax-eterna wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 8:44 pm
... Has nothing to do with ASIO. It is the underlying OS that causes the issues. As per my explanation above. ...
You should come and explain this to people at Intel and Microsoft, as they so clearly have no idea what code they are writing, and have desperate need of your superior knowledge in this regard, lol.

Honestly, there were 2-3 sessions at NAMM with experts from Intel, Microsoft and PCAudiolabs presenting. The issues with ASIO are well-known, and were discussed in great detail. ASIO doesn't even directly allow for multiple streams of audio from different sources. ASIO uses a WDM "shim" component to fake multi-stream and multi-interface support. If you are using multiple streams in non-exclusive mode ... ASIO is simply acting as a front-end for WDM ... fact. You can prove this to yourself by removing all WDM drivers and then try to direct multiple streams through ASIO

In other words, It has quite a bit to do with ASIO, and it's limitations. Microsoft is working to address this BTW. I have the whole forward-looking slide set if you'd like to review.
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Re: Usb Driver unstable

Unread post by pax-eterna » Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:11 pm

What can I say? I have several apps all using ASIO and with exclusive mode off I have no issues. Turn exclusive mode on and all sorts of issues occur. You are obviously the expert so have at it.

Oh and I never wrote "multiple" streams anywhere. Not sure where you got that from. I CAN have three apps open at the same time all using the same AUDIO I/O hardware device and when each one is in "focus" it uses the driver.

I am totally happy with how my system is running using both firewire and USB audio devices all using ASIO - so go figure.
And re the OP, absolutely NO issues with the Yamaha ASIO driver.
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