So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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pologuy
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by pologuy » Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:09 pm

Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:38 pm
Yeah I am going to raise the keybed issues although I am pretty sure they will say it is not widespread. Will let you know.
Well, that's just it... it is not "widespread"... yet.

The keyboard has only been out for 3-4 months - so not "a lot" of playing time on the 88 version yet by most who bought them.

The 88 key version has not been available in the U.S. for some time now ("sold out") - my guess is their weren't a huge number of the 88 keys shipped...?

As the number of 88 keys sells - and the longer time people use them - the problem very well could become "widespread".

I don't know anything about Japanese business culture - but I sure would want to "investigate" the matter while it still was not "widespread" and hopefully nip the problem in the bud before it becomes "widespread" and hurts my company's name and sales.

Just my .02 :D
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Derek » Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:47 pm

Well, they have been regularly updating the Montage, which is now at OS 2.5, and given that the MODX is basically Montage OS 2.5 it means you have started with quite a mature OS. I will be interested to know what is coming in the Montage/MODX next set of updates. I hope some of my Ideascale recommendations (external selection of Setlist from MIDI, better MIDI Zone support, more engines) will make it.

I would like to know what the following means, which I received by email
[YamahaSynth] - [Stage Changed] - Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

The stage of this idea has changed from "Inbound" to "Ideate"
But "Ideate" is an obscure word, so I looked it up
Definition of ideate

transitive verb
: to form an idea or conception of
So, it sounds to me like it is being considered?

When I check the Ideascale thread on this you cannot easily see this status. I had to search for the word, and it does appear in light font under the vote count.

PS: I am glad that NAMM came and went without a Kronos replacement, which means my Kronos is still state of the Korg Art! ;)
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by shappy1010 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:35 pm

I think the best news out of the NAMM was that there is absolutely no competition for the MODX. Meaning Yamaha has clear sailing, the more units sold> the more chance of significant updates.

I honestly think it does more then I need. Except for the velocity problem, that needs fixing.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Derek » Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:32 pm

I think the MODX is a killer product for that market segment. Yamaha have probably caught the others on the hop with it.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by pax-eterna » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:19 am

the single biggest thing that irks me, is the choosing by category function, Why h=this has to always default back to all everytime you go back (especially when auditioning sounds) is a total p.i.t.a. as is the no indication (anywhere on the main screen) that you are using a temporary transpose. It lights up for an octave shift but NOT a chromatic transpose.

They fix those two things alone and I'd be happy!
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by pax-eterna » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:20 am

The keybed is not so much an issue as I "KNEW" it was going to get noisy. I have had several Yamaha keyboards that use the same keybed over the years and everyone got "rattley and noisy" -
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:41 am

pologuy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:09 pm
Well, that's just it... it is not "widespread"... yet.

The keyboard has only been out for 3-4 months - so not "a lot" of playing time on the 88 version yet by most who bought them.

The 88 key version has not been available in the U.S. for some time now ("sold out") - my guess is their weren't a huge number of the 88 keys shipped...?

As the number of 88 keys sells - and the longer time people use them - the problem very well could become "widespread".
OTOH, it is supposed to be the same action as in lots of other boards that they have been selling for years (including MOXF8, MOX8, MM8, numerous P-series models).
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Fleer » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:15 am

And please also ask about memory sizes of their new CP range. Maybe even samples with sympathetic resonance could be added.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by pax-eterna » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:41 am

anotherscott wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:41 am
pologuy wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:09 pm
Well, that's just it... it is not "widespread"... yet.

The keyboard has only been out for 3-4 months - so not "a lot" of playing time on the 88 version yet by most who bought them.

The 88 key version has not been available in the U.S. for some time now ("sold out") - my guess is their weren't a huge number of the 88 keys shipped...?

As the number of 88 keys sells - and the longer time people use them - the problem very well could become "widespread".
OTOH, it is supposed to be the same action as in lots of other boards that they have been selling for years (including MOXF8, MOX8, MM8, numerous P-series models).
And those boards developed the same noises too, well they did for me. The MOXF8 I had did exactly the same thing...smooth for about 4-6 weeks then it got noisy.. what I will say is it got to a certain mechanical noise level but went no further than that. The MODX has exhibited the same behaviour. Maybe the "home" versions have extra felt or something??? All I know is it has happened on every Yammie board I have had that used the GHS keybed.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Kal1n_M » Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:22 am

While staying on the topic, some facts must be considered:

- Montage had to wait about six months for it's first firmware update. To expect MODX to have firmware/features upgrade 4 months after release is unreasonable.

- MOXF (MODX predecessor in the line) during it's 5 years of product life had 3 firmware updates. Montage so far had 8. This gives some perspective what to expect in terms of MODX updates.

- There is no such thing as "should be easy for them to add it" in the software world. The "simplest" change or addition requires a lot of engineering, coding, testing, QAing, etc. There was an example posted a few years ago how much does a "simple task", like adding another field in a form in some accounting software, cost at the end and how many man-hours it may take (for a big software company, not a self learning basement coder). The final number was close to 25 000$.
Considering how fictional such numbers are, imagine how many new boards should Yamaha expect to sell (sales boost from the new feature/update) in order to justify the expense.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Stevie18 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:54 pm

Kal1n_M wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 6:22 am
- MOXF (MODX predecessor in the line) during it's 5 years of product life had 3 firmware updates. Montage so far had 8. This gives some perspective what to expect in terms of MODX updates.
While of course I don't know what will come, I think there is a different way of interpreting what you write which leads to a different outcome. There is an important difference in the situation of the MOXF compared to MODX: The MOXF was "alone", it had its own firmware etc. The MODX in contrast has basically the same firmware as the Montage with very small differences which are (at least for now) only to accommodate the different hardware. As someone else writes MODX 1.0 is Montage 2.5. So it's part of the family. The incremental cost of adding a feature to the MODX if it was added to the Montage is probably negligible. I would actually argue that it might in many cases be more costly not to add a feature to the MODX which is added to the Montage.

So what you write: the Montage already got in its lifetime more updates than the MOXF ever got. Looks good for the MODX to me... :)
- There is no such thing as "should be easy for them to add it" in the software world. The "simplest" change or addition requires a lot of engineering, coding, testing, QAing, etc. There was an example posted a few years ago how much does a "simple task", like adding another field in a form in some accounting software, cost at the end and how many man-hours it may take (for a big software company, not a self learning basement coder). The final number was close to 25 000$.
Considering how fictional such numbers are, imagine how many new boards should Yamaha expect to sell (sales boost from the new feature/update) in order to justify the expense.
There is a lot of truth in that. However, I believe those costs are way too high for most situations. They certainly do not apply to where I work for simple changes. And Yamaha have added to the Montage already so many features which are highly complex but (from _my_ point of view) just eye candy (for example the stupid blur feature) or nice to haves, that they should have the resources to add clear usability features which make the Montage more suited to the advertised main use case - performing live...
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:24 pm

Stevie18 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:54 pm
The MOXF was "alone", it had its own firmware etc. The MODX in contrast has basically the same firmware as the Montage with very small differences which are (at least for now) only to accommodate the different hardware.
The MOXF was derived from the Motif XF in much the same way as the MODX is derived from the Montage.
Stevie18 wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:54 pm
The incremental cost of adding a feature to the MODX if it was added to the Montage is probably negligible.
As far as I know, the only software feature the Montage has that the MODX does not is the DAW control added in 2.5... and a lot of that involves buttons that don't exist on the MODX, so the function would have to be somewhat rewritten to be implemented on the MODX. But assuming the more limited hardware supports it, there seems to be no reason the MODX couldn't have any new function introduced for Montage, and so far, it does.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Derek » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:24 pm

Agree on the cost of software, as I used to run a software engineering team, and I have pointed it out before. Some changes are trivial five minute fixes, others can get very expensive. But even the five minute fixes need testing.
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by Stevie18 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:25 pm

anotherscott wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:24 pm
The MOXF was derived from the Motif XF in much the same way as the MODX is derived from the Montage
Interesting. I used to have a MOXF. At some point I had to play a Motif XF at a gig. I did. I had difficulty finding my way around. I got the feeling that they were quite different. Maybe they were at different patch levels or so?
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Re: So, NAMM has been and gone - and...

Unread post by anotherscott » Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:38 pm

Motif XF and MOXF had the same sound set.
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