Live Stage MODX

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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Ivan Jochner
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Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Ivan Jochner » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:22 pm

Hi folk,


I am a potential buyer of Modx, but my main concern is switching quickly Performances live on stage and to know the differnces between MODX/Montage here.


How differ those two instruments from each other in terms of:

1. Switching Performances Live using Seamless transitions. (pedals are nor considered here))

Will i need to press Touch Screen all the time on MODX changing Sets on the fly instead of knobs which is more comfortable on Montage ?

2. The Montage uses seamless 8 parts performances ( MODX 4) but would not Montage suffer from Polyphony issues?

3. Is it true that Scenes cutting off the sound on both whats the use of it then ?


Cheers!


Ivan
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Stevie18 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:52 pm

Hi,

1) there are other means to switch. A foot pedal, the incr button, external sources. If any of those suit you you would be fine

2) it would suffer only from polyphony issues if so many voices are still sounding at the moment when you switch. I did but never have an issue with that and I have played live both with the Montage and MODX. Sometimes one, sometimes the other, sometimes both.

3) scenes do cut off the sound for those sounds which are muted in the new scene. Those which are on in the old and the new will continue. So adding a sound is always fine, muting may be an issue. Certainly from my point of view a shortcoming of the scene feature which makes them less useful than they could be. In many cases I use the AF buttons instead to switch sounds on and off. That can work exactly as wanted in most cases.

I proposed on Ideascale to improve the scenes, I suggest you vote that up. Surprisingly few people seem to care...
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Saul » Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:57 pm

Probably the reason you don't see more MODX owners voting up these things on Yamaha's Ideascale is because the majority of buyers are not gigging musicians, to whom of course these things would be of a much higher priority?

By the way, welcome to the forums Ivan. How is availability of the MODX in Ukraine?
Saul
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Stevie18 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:03 pm

Could be, but it is the same for the Montage. And I would have thought that those high end hardware synths are used more for gigging than studio. If I would play only at home or in a studio I would probably only have some master keyboard and some VSTs and be done. It’s live where the reliability and simplicity and “liveness” of the hardware synths shines. But maybe I am totally getting that wrong...
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Saul » Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:58 pm

I think you are absolutely right about simplicity in synths used in a live situation. This is probably where boards like the CP have a slight edge because the user interface is very much geared toward simplicity of use on stage?

Odd thing though and I am sure you noticed on this forum too. There is often a lot of discussion about things users may want but when you run a poll or as in this case put something on Ideascale the response is always a little underwhelming? Not sure why that is. Perhaps they just have no confidence that their input will lead to any results?
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Ivan Jochner » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:00 pm

Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:57 pm

By the way, welcome to the forums Ivan. How is availability of the MODX in Ukraine?
A lot of guys still use XS/XF/ etc line of Yamahas , i still own Motif XS.

The availability is good here. Just a matter of having money and ready to go! The pricei s really good 1000 Euro for MODX 6 for me from representative with 15% discount.

I see a lot of features on MODX like sidechain/arp synch with live Drummer cause i suffer a lot with Motif XS.

Now i think of selling it to have only Nord stage 3 + MODX 61.

Thanks again for adding me!

Here some video of us on stage with Child in time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGiLmyp ... 5lYEQ&t=0s
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Ivan Jochner » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:07 pm

Stevie18 wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:52 pm
Hi,

1) there are other means to switch. A foot pedal, the incr button, external sources. If any of those suit you would be fine

Yes, i know that pedals are helpful but they do only up or down functions for me where on stage i use switching randomly.


But still, my question is : Will i use only Touch Screen for selecting Favourite Performances (cause MODX does not have enough knobs?)

No pedals here and sysex commands from the computer)) Just fingers!

Thanks!
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by anotherscott » Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm

Ivan Jochner wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:22 pm
1. Switching Performances Live using Seamless transitions. (pedals are nor considered here))

Will i need to press Touch Screen all the time on MODX changing Sets on the fly instead of knobs which is more comfortable on Montage ?

2. The Montage uses seamless 8 parts performances ( MODX 4) but would not Montage suffer from Polyphony issues?

3. Is it true that Scenes cutting off the sound on both whats the use of it then ?
1. Yes, you'll do all your sound changing with the touchscreen, whereas on the Montage you often have the option of using touchscreen or hard buttons.

2. Montage has more polyphony in its FM section than MODX. But you can do 8-Part Performances on both Montage and MODX, the restriction to 4 on the MODX only relates to the seamless transitions, and it is not a polyphony issue. It is largely about how many simultaneous effects are available. On either board, if you layered 8 parts, you can tax polyphony, but two things to keep in mind: (1) The Pars themselves vary, some use only 1 instance of polyphony for each keystrike, others can use up to 8, so the choice of which sounds you're using can make a huge difference in how fast you're going through polyphony, possibly more so than the number of Parts in your Performance, and (2) if you're assembling an 8 part performance, you're probably using splits, not just layers, which means you're not playing every Part with every keystrike... some notes trigger some Parts, other notes trigger others. For an extreme example, if you were to split 8 Parts across the keyboard with no overlap, you would not inherently be using any more polypony than if you were just playing a single Part.

3. Scenes are shortcuts to what are essentially different mixer settings. If a scene silences a part, it is equivalent to pressing that part's mute button. That's why it instantly cuts out. If you need to switch sounds with "holdover" from the previously playing sound, there are multiple ways to do it (both between Performances and within a single Performance), but switching scenes is not among them.
Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:57 pm
the majority of buyers are not gigging musicians
Is there any actual data on this? i.e. what percentage of MODX buyers are buying it, at least in part, for purposes of live performance?
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Stevie18 » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:27 pm

Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:58 pm
Odd thing though and I am sure you noticed on this forum too. There is often a lot of discussion about things users may want but when you run a poll or as in this case put something on Ideascale the response is always a little underwhelming? Not sure why that is. Perhaps they just have no confidence that their input will lead to any results?
yes, absolutely, I noticed that. Your explanation seems likely. But since you often mentioned that you have a relatively direct access to Yamaha, that seems weird. I think they will listen and maybe they can change things. I think as a software engineer I have a relatively realistic view on what is possible. And those little things I would like to have are all - I believe - in the realm of the smaller tweaks. So fingers crossed 🤞 😉
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Saul » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:31 pm

Ivan Jochner wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:07 pm

Yes, i know that pedals are helpful but they do only up or down functions for me where on stage i use switching randomly.


But still, my question is : Will i use only Touch Screen for selecting Favourite Performances (cause MODX does not have enough knobs?)

No pedals here and sysex commands from the computer)) Just fingers!

Thanks!
Not sure if this would work but I see no reason why not. Perhaps a midi pedal board like the Behringer FCB1010?

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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Saul » Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:34 pm

anotherscott wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm
Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:57 pm
the majority of buyers are not gigging musicians
Is there any actual data on this? i.e. what percentage of MODX buyers are buying it, at least in part, for purposes of live performance?
I'm not sure there is any data as retailers don't collect such info and there would probably have been a limited amount of survey work done by Yamaha. It is purely speculation on my part just going on the amount of MODX owners I know and how they use their keyboards.

Would definitely be interesting to find out though.
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by pax-eterna » Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:44 am

Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 6:34 pm
anotherscott wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 5:56 pm
Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 3:57 pm
the majority of buyers are not gigging musicians
Is there any actual data on this? i.e. what percentage of MODX buyers are buying it, at least in part, for purposes of live performance?
I'm not sure there is any data as retailers don't collect such info and there would probably have been a limited amount of survey work done by Yamaha. It is purely speculation on my part just going on the amount of MODX owners I know and how they use their keyboards.

Would definitely be interesting to find out though.
Why not do a straw poll here Saul - Using for live gigs or using at home??? I mean it'd be a very small sample size, but hey ;)
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Kal1n_M » Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:24 am

Saul wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:58 pm
Odd thing though and I am sure you noticed on this forum too. There is often a lot of discussion about things users may want but when you run a poll or as in this case put something on Ideascale the response is always a little underwhelming? Not sure why that is. Perhaps they just have no confidence that their input will lead to any results?
Don't underestimate the effect on the Vocal Minority and Silent Majority and how they affect the perception of quality (or anything else in that matter) on the Internet (and not only). There have been multiple studies on that phenomenon, that emerged greatly in the first decade of this century. Some even call it "The Tyranny of the Vocal Minority". Basically, 10 people with failing keybeds can make so much noise that now everyone believes there is model-wide problem, while the statistic (that only Yamaha knows) may eventually show the opposite. The same could be applied to the need for a particular feature to be added.

Regarding the scenes, I do believe most people haven't fully explored the power of the Motion Control Engine in Montage/MODX and keep looking for static solutions (scenes, for example) where Super knob or Motion lanes may be much better solution. The only thing I, personally, am missing in the scenes is the KBD CTRL (which by the way can also fix the scenes cut problem mentioned above), however, I do suspect that sending a Note Off for sustained parts that have KBD CTRL disabled by a scene may be what prevents them to add that.

I would, however, much rather if they add a motion to the existing Super knob position buttons. For example, when you press Super knob position button 1, instead of recalling the setting instantly, it should "slide" from the current position to the recorded one in a per-performance adjustable time. I would gladly sacrifice a motion control lane for that if needed...

But then again, I am not gigging musician in the typical sense (I play live only several times in the year), so what do I know about the needs :lol:
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by Stevie18 » Fri Feb 01, 2019 2:05 pm

The vocal minority is a real problem, I agree. Could well be that all the people in the world who ever had this problem are the ones who posted in this forum. I would doubt that, but who knows. And I don't think even Yamaha know how many keybeds have that problem. I could imagine that many people just accept the noises and don't complain. Similar for the features. Maybe many people just never ask for new features. I mean to be very clear (I said this already): Even if the Montage would be at version 1.0, still, I would go and buy a new one immediately if mine would be destroyed or stolen. Still asking for incremental improvements for the workflow won't hurt and can help to make it much better.
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Re: Live Stage MODX

Unread post by parametric » Fri Feb 01, 2019 4:56 pm

I think it would be quite interesting to run a POLL to examine HOW people actually use their instruments . . . ?

Among the Choices:

1) As a Replacement for the "Family Piano" (Playing for personal pleasure)

2) Resident in a Studio - for Composition

3) For Gigging

4) For use at a Place of worship (might be considered as Gigging - perhaps?)

Option perhaps for choosing more than one?

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