Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

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stixstudios
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Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by stixstudios » Sun Apr 21, 2019 3:18 pm

What I'm after is to create a truly amateur sound. ie. Very RAW.

Me being the player fulfills one part of it, but things just sound too clean and in tune regardless of my best efforts.

What I'm saying is I want some "dodgy" keys. Slightly out of tune, a bit dead here and there. This to me is like a "real" piano, not in the concert sense, but ones you come across (schools or locals halls etc). Not maintained well, but still can be played, good enough tuning but a bit off here and there.

The MODX is a wonderful machine, but I find the piano sounds are way toooooo perfect!!

So, is it possible to create a piano patch where some keys can be slightly detuned? (cents).

Steve.
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Re: Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by anotherscott » Sun Apr 21, 2019 5:16 pm

You could try layering two instances of the same piano sound, and slightly detune one of them relative to the other. To get down to individual note editing, I think you'd have to work with non-stock (user downloadable) samples.
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Re: Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Sun Apr 21, 2019 11:33 pm

What you describe reminds me of a honky-tonk piano sound, or the kind of sound one might expect from the piano in a saloon. It seems like every GM-compatible keyboard I’ve ever seen has at least one honky-tonk piano sound among its presets, because the 128 GM instruments include one.
Michael Rideout
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Re: Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by PotionSequencer » Mon Apr 22, 2019 9:05 pm

- Category Search -> CFX Stage
- Performance Home - > Edit
- Press the keys you want to detune and watch what elements light up at the bottom
- Select the element and increase or decrease the value of the Pitch/Vel parameter
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stixstudios
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Re: Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by stixstudios » Fri May 17, 2019 2:49 pm

Sorry it's taken so long to respond. (sidetracked setting up recording equipment etc.)

Thanks for the replies, but I don't think my question has been understood correctly, my fault, therefore I'll try to elaborate.

What I want is to have the ability to detune ANY physical key in a GLOBAL sense accross the entire keybed. So the keyboard itself sounds a bit dodgy here and there (flat/sharp/dead, by a few cents). The important thing is that this "detune keys" affect the WHOLE MODX sounds if I want.

Meaning, If I pull up a piano patch or an organ patch (and perhaps others), then I'd like to apply that "detune keys" setting to all the patches in a category (or ALL).

Maybe I could have a few saved settings:
  • Street Vendor
    Back Shed
    School Hall
    Concert Hall
    Recital
    Sydney Opera House...???
etc...

I'm sure it seems a bit mad, but I reckon the modx sounds tooooo nice!!. I don't want perfection (except when I do). I want a bit of "realism".

Cheers, Steve.
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Re: Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by anotherscott » Fri May 17, 2019 4:59 pm

You can alter tunings on individual sounds, see yamahasynth.com/montage-category/mastering-montage-microtuning-in-montage-with-heratch but I don't know about globally. But if your goal is "realism" a global approach is not the way to go. Certain instruments (Hammond organ, percussive instruments like Vibes and Marimba) don't have the ability to go out of tune. And getting back to piano, what makes it more "authentically imperfect" is not just a matter of tuning different notes differently, but (to get back to what some of us were talking about earlier), detuning multiple instances of the SAME note differently (since on a piano, a single note may have 2 or 3 strings not perfectly tuned with each other).
Last edited by anotherscott on Fri May 17, 2019 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can I create a piano patch that slightly detunes some keys?

Unread post by vertig0spin » Fri May 17, 2019 5:12 pm

I would say that the CFX piano was sampled off a CFX acoustic grand that was just perfectly tuned; however not all the notes are perfectly alive as there are a couple that are bit dead (check out D3# or D4#, whichever is the one above middle C ... as it doesn't ring nicely like the others at high attack velocity).

I've been able to replace that D# note by creating a new PART with the range set to only allow that key, tuned it up a semi-tone at the PART level and detuned down using fine tuning at the element level. I also set the range on the main piano PART to exclude that note. But I don't think it's possible to replace random notes like that and adjust tuning. Unless you are using an AWM2 Drum PART...
There may be an effect that will do that, however there is the possibility of having two piano PARTs, detuned one of them (assuming a single PART piano is copied), detune one, and use random key-on to go back and forth between the two, similar to how one of the choir strings switch up every time you press the next note...I think it's the Jazz choir!?
Another option might be to set the volume of the second piano PART down to less than half, and the tuning so that the bottom note is a half semi-tone flat and the highest note is a half semi-tone sharp..!?

There might be a way to detune specific sampled notes in the waveform table, but I think it would still involve having two piano PARTs layered (one at a lower volume) to really randomize and emulate different strings out of tune on an upright piano.
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