B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

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B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

Unread post by vertig0spin » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:23 am

In this post, I am mainly referring to Tone Wheel and Rock type 'Organs'. I realize some of these questions involve subjectivity & I'm open to your opinions/experiences/likes/dislikes; and yet some of the questions are more objective and factual regarding waveforms & elements new to the Montage/MODX vs possibly older waveforms/elements from the Motif.

If I purchase the "B's Knees" 'Organ' library that was designed for & uses the waveforms in a Motif XF, I want the waveforms/elements it triggers to be the newest best quality, latest & greatest Organ waveforms/elements on the Montage/MODX, not necessarily the ones from the Motif that came over to the Montage/MODX in Performances under the MOTIF XF Bank, if indeed the Motif ones are different and there are newer Organ waveforms in the 'Preset' Performances that were added to the Montage/MODX.

So my question is basically, does anyone know if the best new Organs' waveforms on the Montage/MODX are (A) the same old waveforms that were on the Motif XF, (B) completely different & newer waveforms, or (C) the Motif waveforms were updated/enhanced on the Montage, so that even though they have the same name and the Motif Preset Organs on the Montage have the same internal pointers to these waveforms, they were updated/re-sampled and sound even better than when they were on the Motif, or (D) a mixed bag, where some of the Montage/MODX best new 'Preset' Organ waveforms/elements are completely new and some waveforms/elements came over from the Motif?

Are some of the new 'Preset' organs on the Montage/MODX better than the B's Knees organs? Or are the B's Knees better, but maybe some of the older elements that are from the Motif XF, could be replaced with newer better elements/waveforms that are new to the Montage/MODX, thereby making the B's Knees organs sound better and higher quality overall?

Also, does anyone know (in general) if the K-Sounds "Organimation" Organs are better than or not quite as good as the "B's Knees" Organs?
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Re: B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

Unread post by Derek » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:41 am

Short answer. Organimation is I think the best out of them. Had it and Bees knees for the Motif ES. Couldn’t say for Montage or MODX as I get my organ sound via modelling these days.
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Re: B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

Unread post by YamahaUser » Tue Apr 30, 2019 1:04 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:23 am
So my question is basically, does anyone know if the best new Organs' waveforms on the Montage/MODX are (A) the same old waveforms that were on the Motif XF, (B) completely different & newer waveforms, or (C) the Motif waveforms were updated/enhanced on the Montage, so that even though they have the same name and the Motif Preset Organs on the Montage have the same internal pointers to these waveforms, they were updated/re-sampled and sound even better than when they were on the Motif, or (D) a mixed bag, where some of the Montage/MODX best new 'Preset' Organ waveforms/elements are completely new and some waveforms/elements came over from the Motif?
To the best of my knowledge, any Waveforms that have identical names in various models are the same Waveform. Comparisons can be made using the Data List for the different models, but ignore the Waveform number, which can change from model to model. Waveforms found in the Montage or MODX Data List not appearing in the Motif XF List are "new" - whether "better" you'll have to decide for yourself.
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Re: B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

Unread post by vertig0spin » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:26 pm

Derek wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:41 am
Short answer. Organimation is I think the best out of them. Had it and Bees knees for the Motif ES. Couldn’t say for Montage or MODX as I get my organ sound via modelling these days.
Thanks! Just from the demoes I've heard, B's Knees seems to have a better soft organ sound (maybe even rock organ as well), but Organimation seems to have a better tonewheel effect. Does any of this ring any truth to your ears/experience with them?

Are there any Montage/MODX preset organs (tonewheel/rock) that you've found to have fairly decent (if not great) tonewheel effect, but maybe just not the best organ sound overall?
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Re: B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

Unread post by Derek » Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:58 pm

I am pretty sure organimation was the best one I preferred. This was stock waves in the Motif Rack ES I had at the time, but the programming was much better.

These days I am using GSI VB3 through the IK Multimedia Leslie (endorsed by Hammond) and that sound is awesome, or the CX-3 engine in my Kronos. I'll be revisiting Montage organs later in the year as part of "what if" emergency patch programming (enough to get me through a gig if other keyboards fail), and I'll probably use organimation as the start point.
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Derek Cook

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Re: B's Knees Library Waveforms vs Montage/MODX's Newer Waveforms vs Organimation

Unread post by vertig0spin » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:25 pm

Derek wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 5:58 pm
I am pretty sure organimation was the best one I preferred. This was stock waves in the Motif Rack ES I had at the time, but the programming was much better.

These days I am using GSI VB3 through the IK Multimedia Leslie (endorsed by Hammond) and that sound is awesome, or the CX-3 engine in my Kronos. I'll be revisiting Montage organs later in the year as part of "what if" emergency patch programming (enough to get me through a gig if other keyboards fail), and I'll probably use organimation as the start point.
When you do go to revisit Montage organs, you might want to check out/refer to Jason's post in the link below, because he listed which are the old and which are the new Organ waveforms, as well as that the Organ sounds with a "2" at the end have the new and improved Leslie tone cabinet rotating effect that was introduced as a new effect in one of the Montage software updates:

https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/ ... ganimation


Also, here as well ... interesting as they talk about B's Knees and 'Bad Mister' confirms that Dave Polich (B’s Knees’ author) was a part of the MONTAGE voicing team:
https://yamahasynth.com/ask-a-question/ ... eply-83358
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