Chaos Germany!

Kick back and talk about anything here. Music or non Music related..Anything goes....within reason!

Moderators: Derek, parametric, Saul

User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Saul » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:32 pm

tux wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:11 pm
Merkel is a puppet, she spends most of her time listening to her 'advisors' (puppet handlers who represent Soros and Bertelsmann and other globalist power players) and then repeats what they told her to say and do.
It's interesting to hear about how things are viewed within Germany. I'm pretty sure the rest of the world views Theresa May in the same light, being pushed and pulled by her ministers and other vested interests.

Germany has a much more complex political scene than the UK though. I can't imagine it is an easy task trying to keep everyone happy.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
purcell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
Germany

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by purcell » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:11 pm

"Germany has a much more complex political scene than the UK though. I can't imagine it is an easy task trying to keep everyone happy."

"GROKO"...now make us all happy! (Result: 66% SPD members voted YES! ..thats a lot)

Then start now!
The scandalous poverty of old. poor retirees!
Internet fast ... or superfast!
Roads, bridges, rails, from the 60 - 80ties .... the DIESEL NOx problem, etc

All that, was overslept for years and years!
Where is it? The SUPER-RICH Germany???
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Saul » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:19 pm

Well driving through Germany as an outsider the impression is always of a rich country doing well but of course that is only the "bits" we see. I'm sure living there you soon start to notice the cracks. But then I don't think it's much different anywhere else. The UK has lacked infrastructure investment for years. Just look at the state of our rail network! and don't get me started on broadband! :evil:

All countries are struggling with population growth, people living longer, downturn in the global economy and the slow migration from the old industrial base to newer emerging technologies and the consequential hit on employment for those not skilled enough to keep up.

It all requires vision and monumental planning. We need forward thinking politicians not the lot we have at the moment. It's a new world...they just haven't realised it and we all suffer as a result.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
purcell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
Germany

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by purcell » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:30 pm

There are very poor cities...and some rich cities.
Most of the streets and other things ...in poor cities are a nightmare!
The didn´t - don´t have the money to repair anything!
In general we had good streets in 1980.

All is very simple: NO MONEY!!!

Have a look: photo

http://www.sueddeutsche.de/wirtschaft/a ... -1.3623517

Road surface, which has been repaired for years with various asphalt surfaces, here at Woldegk in Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.
-----------------------
Hardly a sight is sadder than a place whose center is desolate: The tavern has closed, forever, the department store has not existed for a long time, a sign on the façade may still point to it, but behind the blind windows yawns nothingness. Building gaps behind wooden fences. Hardly any people on the streets, and then they are old.

This is not an unrealistic scenario of a ghost town. It is reality in the rich Germany of the year 2017. Such places are available a hundred times, if not a thousandfold, less in booming states such as Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg, all the more so in poorer areas such as the Saarland, Rhineland-Palatinate or North Rhine-Westphalia.

This gap has widened in recent years, and there is no indication that this will change over the next few years. Poor communities are already pushing an enormous debt burden. They have less and less money to secure the basic needs of their citizens. Rich communities, on the other hand, benefit from the fact that firms and workers move in, and they receive high tax revenues that enable them to expand schools, transport routes and medical care.

Things are going well in the boom regions around major cities such as Munich, Hamburg or Frankfurt, but also in the vicinity of medium-sized cities such as Freiburg or Regensburg. There is a healthy economic structure here that will continue to be attractive to companies in the future. Who has, is given. The flip side is the skyrocketing rents. Ordinary earners can often no longer afford such cities, they are forced into suburbs that continue to expand.
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Saul » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:43 pm

Where did all the money go? Germany is the world 4th largest economy. Although I just did a quick bit of research and like the UK it is not in the top 15 wealthiest countries in the world. Was a nice surprise though to see Ireland at number 5 ;)

Things really do seem to have taken a downturn in Germany :(
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
purcell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
Germany

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by purcell » Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:57 pm

"Rich germany"

Germany makes a considerable billions surplus. However, many municipalities are doing badly.
In some regions, the situation is like a vicious circle: Clamming Communities can only finance themselves with relatively expensive loans.
Because large sums of money flow into debt settlement, they no longer have the money to invest.
----------------
The problem: in many German cities is so far little. Although cities, municipalities and districts also generated a surplus of 4.5 billion euros in 2016. However, a study by the Bertelsmann Foundation, which will be presented on Wednesday, shows how unevenly these surpluses are distributed. They are generated mainly in Bavaria and Baden-Württemberg. In other countries, however, many municipalities are lagging behind, with some threatening to be crushed by the immense debt burden. This is especially true for municipalities in Saarland, Rhineland-Palatinate and North Rhine-Westphalia. The gap between poor and rich also grows between cities, not just among the people who live in them.

This is illustrated in particular by a comparison of municipal total debt by federal state. While municipal per capita debt in Baden-Württemberg amounts to 744 euros per inhabitant, it amounts to 3733 euros per inhabitant in Saarland - more than fivefold. Many municipalities in Rhineland-Palatinate and North Rhine-Westphalia are also struggling with debt mountains - all 17 of Germany's most heavily indebted municipalities are located in these two federal states.
User avatar
tux
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1174
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 1:42 am
Kiribati

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by tux » Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:50 pm

purcell wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:57 pm
a study by the Bertelsmann Foundation
Since you mention the Bertelsmann Foundation, they are one of the most influential lobbies in Germany who have shaped government policies in the last decades (and not in favour of the common people). They are pure manipulative evil.
Saul wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 5:43 pm
Where did all the money go?
Same story as everywhere, in the pockets of the few. The gap between the ultra-rich and the common people is grow larger faster in Germany too.
My Yamaha RM50 page
My Yamaha synths: RM50, TG77, TG500, EX5R, CS6R (with PLG150-AN and PLG150-DX)
User avatar
purcell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
Germany

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by purcell » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:46 pm

"The gap between the ultra-rich and the common people is grow larger faster in Germany too."

Insanity! Ultrarich!

What a feeling ...with 800 €/month in the pocket for all and everything! :(
On the other hand: Some freaks with 8000/80000/8000000/800000000000000 € a month! :twisted: :mrgreen: ... and away also? <->

Ultrarich Germans (away) <-> in the Caribbean? ...ruling their things from there?
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Saul » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:02 pm

I know what you mean Purcell. It's painful when your struggling to pay rent every month and doing what you can to earn money when you see all these ultra rich people with their MILLIONS per month and spending most of their time chilling in the Caribbean :(

I have nothing at against people making a lot of money, we would all love to be making a big chunk of change every month BUT a lot of these ultra rich have acquired their wealth at our expense and have not really "earned" it in the way that you or I would think of that term.

I think with the coming further automation of jobs normally carried out by humans and the move into new technologies we are going to see millions of people, perhaps hundreds of millions out of work. How are they supposed to pay their bills and survive?

I'm slowly coming around to the idea of universal income. I can't see any other way forward.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
purcell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
Germany

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by purcell » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:31 pm

Start of the lottery: Born rich?...or Born poor? back then (yesterday) and nowadays is different.

Born poor ... makes you work...possibly for little money ... and later for little pension? (1950/60)
Born rich makes you money counting...every day! :-) ... pension ?...several millions.
Born poor...but but become rich...
Born rich ...but become poor.....
-------------------------------------------
UNIVERSAL INCOME! .... was on TV already!
I remember they told +1400/1500 € would be that Universal income for all germans a month.
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Saul » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:04 pm

The idea behind universal income is that everyone gets it regardless of what money they already have or how much they earn.

There are of course a lot of people who do not support the idea but then they have also not come up with an alternative solution. The worlds population is growing, the need for humans to work is reducing, industries are disappearing. What do you do with the millions of people who simply won't be able to get a job because there IS NO job for them?

For many a Universal Income would allow them to be more creative. Hard to be creative when your completely exhausted from working two jobs, not getting enough sleep and stressing about how to pay the bills and keep your kids clothed and fed. Imagine all the potential out there that is wasted right now?

Like I said, I can't see any other solution.
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
Derek
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4297
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:00 am
Contact:
Wales

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Derek » Mon Mar 05, 2018 8:32 pm

The problem with a universal income is that it will result in a race to the bottom. Why bother getting out of bed in the morning and contributing to the future of mankind when you get given money for doing nothing? Look at New Labour's client state approach to buying votes.....

And who pays for it? Remember Governments have no money, it is taxpayers' money.

Corbyn talks about the many and not the few, and the fact that the few should "give a little extra", but conveniently forgets that the richest 1 per cent of UK taxpayers pay over a quarter of all income tax; the top 10 per cent pay 60 per cent of the total. And that's only thinking about income tax, not your true tax rate with all other taxation included.

As a classic example of how generous benefits (and what is a universal income other than that?) can affect lifestyle choices, I realised in 2008 and via the band that I was in at the time, that I must have been THE mug as I was the only one out of the four in the band who actually worked for a living; the others could have done (they were fit and able enough to gig and thus be creative), but each had made life styles choice not to because the benefits scheme was such that it did not pay for them to work. As the band folded in 2012 they were all grumbling about the recent benefit changes at the time taking their "income" away, and I was thinking "get to work, you lazy buggers". I don't mind subsidising those in genuine need, but we need to get social services back to being a safety net and not a lifestyle choice.

BTW, I had a poor childhood as a product of a broken household, with my mum bringing up three kids on her own in the 70s. I worked my out of that situation when I left school.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 10558
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Saul » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:00 pm

I hear you Derek. Particularly on the band front. Back in the early 90's I was roadie, manager, tech and driver for my girlfriends band. There were four of them. I was the only one who worked a full time job and kept them all going! I paid the rent on our 3 bed semi..which they all used as a place to doss and party, I paid for the food they all voraciously consumed, I paid for the transport and even paid for most of the gear.

I must admit it did start to grate on me a little that I was doing all the work and they were spending their days sleeping, messing about, rehearsing and generally behaving like they were independently wealthy whilst living off me AND the state because they all claimed benefits of course. And oh the irony. Songs about how the state repressed everyone, then going on protest marches against the criminal justice bill and anything other cause they could jump on.

So yes there are plenty out there like that but, as I mentioned, what is the solution to the looming crisis that is fast approaching? If you have millions out of work because there are no jobs for them, what do we do? We can mention the downsides to universal benefit/income but what is the alternative?

I also come from a poor background by the way. My father died when I was 8 leaving my mother with a mortgage 4 young children and a pile of debts. She couldn't get any help at all and ended up working three jobs. She did a fantastic job of bringing us up but where did hard work get her? She saw her so called friends stay at home and live on benefits whilst she worked herself into the ground. She still worked up until two years before she passed away. Even then it was what happened in hospital that killed her not the illness and of course they conveniently lost all her records! :evil:
Saul
Site Admin
Subscribe To Our YouTube Channel!
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Dowina Acoustic Guitars: Dowina Cabernet DC
Dowina Chardonnay GAC DS - Dowina Rustica GAC - Dowina Marus - Dowina Puella

Seagull S6 Original/Vintage VE2000GG Gordon Giltrap/Ashbury AG-160/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
User avatar
purcell
Senior Member
Senior Member
Posts: 1332
Joined: Mon Oct 05, 2009 12:00 am
Germany

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by purcell » Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:28 pm

"I was the only one who worked a full time job and kept them all going!" ... it can happen. And is very useful for...others. :lol:
Be sure! You're not the only one who did that.

Sometimes people live this way: Use the possibilities! :lol: ... Use Saul! :lol: .... "then going on protest marches" ((i)) :lol:

"What do you do with the millions of people who simply won't be able to get a job because there IS NO job for them?"
Do what Gerhard Schröder did! AGENDA 2010 and HARTZ 4!
Hartz 4 Regelsatz - 416 € Regelbedarf 2018 beim Arbeitslosengeld II
Hartz 4 ruleset - 416 € Standard requirements 2018 for unemployment benefits II
In 2018 it´s 416 € for living. Gerhard Schröder...! :twisted:

Can happen too! Rich father with a rich - but stupid - son. Also a problem.
Rich father to son: "What have you ever brought into our family ??? Nothing !!!"
User avatar
Derek
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4297
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:00 am
Contact:
Wales

Re: Chaos Germany!

Unread post by Derek » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:30 pm

Saul wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 9:00 pm
I hear you Derek. Particularly on the band front. Back in the early 90's I was roadie, manager, tech and driver for my girlfriends band. There were four of them. I was the only one who worked a full time job and kept them all going! I paid the rent on our 3 bed semi..which they all used as a place to doss and party, I paid for the food they all voraciously consumed, I paid for the transport and even paid for most of the gear.

I must admit it did start to grate on me a little that I was doing all the work and they were spending their days sleeping, messing about, rehearsing and generally behaving like they were independently wealthy whilst living off me AND the state because they all claimed benefits of course. And oh the irony. Songs about how the state repressed everyone, then going on protest marches against the criminal justice bill and anything other cause they could jump on.

So yes there are plenty out there like that but, as I mentioned, what is the solution to the looming crisis that is fast approaching? If you have millions out of work because there are no jobs for them, what do we do? We can mention the downsides to universal benefit/income but what is the alternative?

I also come from a poor background by the way. My father died when I was 8 leaving my mother with a mortgage 4 young children and a pile of debts. She couldn't get any help at all and ended up working three jobs. She did a fantastic job of bringing us up but where did hard work get her? She saw her so called friends stay at home and live on benefits whilst she worked herself into the ground. She still worked up until two years before she passed away. Even then it was what happened in hospital that killed her not the illness and of course they conveniently lost all her records! :evil:
Sounds like our band experiences are similar. ;) The guitarist in my first band was "retired" due to disability after an industrial accident which did happen, but he could play guitar and I watched him vaulting fences when he could not be bothered to walk around them.

My mum was like yours. I think she held down three jobs whilst we were young, and that was a strong work ethos instilled in me. Our mums were doing the right thing compared to those that choose to live off the state.

As to your question on the alternative for the millions of unemployed?

UK unemployment is about 1.4M and about 4% of the workforce which is the lowest since 1971. Based on our band experiences we know there are people out there making a "lifestyle choice" not to work. Not sure what percentage that would be, but lets say 25%, which would mean that UK genuine unemployment would be less that 1M, so not sure where the "millions" of unemployed are? Unless you look elsewhere like Spain and Italy where there is endemic 50% youth unemployment, but we all know the cause of that.... ;)

I know it is contentious, but if immigration was more controlled, coupled with the moves to return social benefits back to being a safety net as opposed to lifestyle choice then it would probably fall further. There is of course the issue of do the jobs pay enough and what about the gig economy (which some people prefer). The best thing to do there is small Government, small client state, get out of the way and let companies thrive and innovate. In the financial crisis there was doom and gloom for the civil servants losing their jobs but more jobs were created in the private sector than were lost in the public sector (note I used to be a civil servant until we were privatised, so I have sat on both sides of the public/private fence).

Then quit the EU (and have the balls to tell Barnier and Junker where to go), slash corporation tax and tariffs, make the UK an attractive place to do business (what the EU is dead scared of, as well as losing our money), trade with the rest of the world, and generate the jobs.

The act of leaving the EU itself will give us the chance to save money on the EU protectionist tariffs that make some of our goods more expensive, which is disproportionately felt by people on low incomes.

That has to be a better way forward compared to paying people to sit on their bums in return for doing nothing, which is no incentive?
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
Post Reply

Return to “Chill Out Room”