Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by AlexC » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:23 pm

One of the problems Gibson have is of their own making... I can only speak for the UK, but they put in place a policy with music stores that in order to stock Gibson guitars the store had to have X amount in stock and on display. It is quite a large amount too! So, smaller music shops couldn’t afford to stock Gibson’s because it was too much of a financial risk to them. Catch 22 - if people can’t find them in their local store and try them out then they aren’t going to buy them and the shops aren’t going to stock them. Whoever thought this was good business practice needs their head examined!
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by parametric » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:15 am

They are Fools to themselves with this stance.

Sadly, it's all too common these days. With markets the way they are, Bullying in this fashion is just plain idiotic.

All they achieve is reducing access to their products.

Music shops are dying out, especially LARGE ones. All they are doing is helping that along.

This nonsense exists in other areas too. Zippo® lighters are a case in point.

In order to sell those, you have not only to carry "a range" of lighters, but also carry the Flints, Wicks, Zippo Fuel,

and some related accessories (Belt pouches) etc . . .

THAT - I agree with. If you see Zippo lighters in the window, then you KNOW you can buy flints there.

Zippo flints are FATTER than normal - and regular flints DON'T work well . . . . .

In THIS case, I don't suppose the cost of the Zippo franchise will break the bank in the same way as a Gibson Franchise???

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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by parametric » Thu Mar 29, 2018 11:00 am

Further to this thread, I was idly browsing for Music Shops near where I live and found this: http://www.edgwaremusic.com/sale.html

At the Bottom of the page is an Epiphone LH SG for 90 Quid (I thought it unusual enough to post here . . . )

Epihone LH SG.png

At £90, could be a steal for someone . . .

N.B - Some other interesting Guitars in the "Electric Guitar" section too . . . .

parametric
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Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by Saul » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:22 pm

Thanks Chris. A new SG LH is around £280 so definitely a bargain :)

Might be an issue with the pricing though. On the sale page is says £90 but when you click for more details it says £150
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by parametric » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:46 pm

Yes, I wondered about that . . . . . . :?

Webpages are dependent on those who update them . . . .

In this case - a direct inquiry is probably the only solution . . .

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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by Saul » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:14 pm

Fender CEO Andy Mooney: “Gibson’s troublers are all of their own making”

Fender CEO Andy Mooney has stated that fellow guitar giant Gibson, which faces the imminent prospect of bankruptcy, brought about its own financial troubles - and Gibson CEO Henry Juszkiewicz agrees.

In an interview with Forbes, Fender’s head honcho stated, “We've been growing at a faster pace than the industry and enjoying that growth. Gibson’s travails are all of their own making; it’s nothing to do with the state of the industry.”

And Juszkiewicz has taken responsibility for those mistakes, telling the New York Times his plan to transform Gibson into a music lifestyle company “wasn’t a great decision… It didn’t work out very well. I think it was a rational decision, but it turned out to be a very poor decision, and it’s a decision I made.

"It is what it is.”

More info over on https://www.musicradar.com/news/fender- ... own-making
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by JDZ » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:30 pm

Seems pretty clear they will be going through bankruptcy, equity will be wiped out and CEO won't survive.

With the lifestyle acquisitions, likely will be a sale of the company's assets as the current business model doesn't work or make sense. Worst case is it is a sale of the brand and its IP.

I think Yamaha should buy the Gibson portion of the company and immediately improve quality, making custom shop in US and much else in Japan. Opportunity to buy a great brand; at a steep discount.
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:46 am

Would love to know exactly why Juszkiewicz thought trying to turn Gibson into a "music lifestyle company" was in any way rational. It was bonkers! The guy is as mad as a box of frogs. Gibson is a class brand which he has been steadfastly attempting to drag into the gutter.

Yamaha would certainly be a welcome prospect as a new owner although I am not sure they would want to keep production in the USA.
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by JDZ » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:19 am

I'd be very surprised if any new owner would keep the much of the production in the US.
Fender has MIA, MIM and MIJ

Make the custom shop, halo models in US for marketing.
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:15 am

That was my thinking too. Keep the Custom models MIA and move the rest of production to Mexico or another country with lower production costs. It has not hurt many other brands to manufacture outside the USA and it makes financial sense, they are not the ones heading toward bankruptcy right now!
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by AlexC » Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:45 pm

One of the reasons I like Yamaha guitars is that they are, essentially, all the same. They seem to roll off the production line with the same decent quality - Fender and Gibson are well known for their ‘Friday afternoon’ everyone’s thinking about the weekend models. Also, Gibson are really making the same models of guitar with the same specs as they have done since the 1950s... Not what you’d call ‘progressive.’
I’m a member of an other large well known guitar forum and I notice that a lot of the Gibson fans tend to treat them as collectibles, not as working instruments. They’ll spend huge amounts of money because they like the wood grain and paint finish. How the thing actually works in a playing environment doesn’t seem to worry them that much. There’s a snobbish appeal there. Obviously, I’m generalising and I’m not tarring all Gibson players with the same brush. I just think Gibson have been trading off this market for years.
Also, the price is ludicrous for what you get. Personally, I own an Epiphone Les Paul, which I got for £45 (second hand) and it sounds exactly like and plays as well as some £2000 Gibson’s I’ve played. So what does that say?
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by parametric » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:03 pm

AlexC wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 2:45 pm
I own an Epiphone Les Paul, which I got for £45 (second hand) and it sounds exactly like and plays as well as some £2000 Gibson’s I’ve played. So what does that say?
I totally agree Alex.

I only played 2 gigs as a guitarist in my life, using my Trusty Vox LP Copy (£79.95 IIRC)

The second gig, I borrowed my mates genuine Sunburst LP Deluxe. I have to say, it was a delight to play - silky action - and much heavier than my copy - BUT - I didn't consider it worth the HUGE Price differential.

I DO acknowledge that there is much PLEASURE in owning/playing the real deal - and that will long continue, I'm sure . . . .

It was the same with Cameras back in the 70's/80's . . .

Nice to OWN a Nikon F or a Hasselblad 500C - but you could still take a decent picture with a Practica Nova or a Zenith 80.

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Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by Saul » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:41 pm

I guess the thing with Gibson is if people are still willing to lay out the big bucks they will keep making them.

The Dowina acoustics I have here are, in my opinion far better than any Taylor, Fender, Gibson or PRS and they are around a third of the price BUT because they are not a "big name" brand they don't get the recognition they deserve and people stick to the well know makes.

I have always been of the opinion that Epiphone make better guitars than Gibson, which is kind of ironic since they are essentially the same company and Epiphone copies many of the Gibson brand guitars. Of course Gibson owners will laugh at that notion but let them. If they want to spend large amounts of cash on a Gibson Les Paul I am not going to try and convince them to do otherwise. It's their cash after all.
:lol: :/:
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by JDZ » Thu Apr 05, 2018 9:22 pm

Gibson, while it is a disaster, is trying to address multiple segments in the guitar market, just as many other companies including Yamaha.

59 Les Paul I believe is most collectible electric and go for hundreds of thousands. So they have re-issues which are big $ and halo models. Then they have non custom shop and also Epiphone. All of these address different segments of overall market and at different price points.

Fender, Gretsch, Yamaha and many others do artist specific models for decades. Some are very expensive, Fender has an Eric Clapton Blackie out now that run $10K. Gretsch has an Angus Young model that is pretty expensive.

All seems good business to me if there is a market. And just like cars, halo models drive sales of the rest of the product line - M Series BMW, AMG Mercedes, Ford GT or Shelby mustangs. Pretty much every car manufacturer has their own halo models. It's also part of defining a brand.

Some of these end up being collectibles. There is a Yamaha Buddha SG like Santana's that was a re-issue or such that has been for sale for $50K. I have no idea if it is worth anywhere near that, nor have any interest in it. There's also a company that takes the gibsons and for many thousand more will make it even closer to a 59 or such.

Definitely not a one size fits all market and people have many different drivers when buying a guitar (or car).

Innovation at Gibson has been bewildering - custom van themed and self tuning guitars 8O. Fender has been much smarter on that front.
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Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices and Bankruptcy

Unread post by jens5 » Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:55 pm

Check out the new Eastman SB59 comparison with a Gibson Historic 58 VOS reissue Les Paul. The Eastman is $1839. The Gibson is $4500. Difference?
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