EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

The EX5 features a unique Extended Synthesis system which incorporates a number of advanced tone generator technologies. AWM2, AN, FDSP and VL. The EX5 is one of the best keyboard Yamaha ever produced.

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EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by dragon_x » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:17 am

Hello, everyone
Today I bought the Yamaha EX7. It has been my dream since the 90s. The instrument is in perfect condition, but I have a problem with sound banks. The disk drive works correctly if it reads and writes to the files saved on its own, but the attempt to read the bank of sounds stored on the PC ends after a while with the message "Bad Disk". Has anyone encountered a similar problem? I will be grateful for your help. I found Demo Disks on the forum and I would like to upload the original factory sounds.
Thank you in advance for your help and best regards
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Daniel
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by jima » Sat Feb 17, 2018 12:53 am

Perhaps you could help by going through which set of disks you downloaded and what steps you took to load the files? If you can write and read your own files the drive would seem to be OK (run diskette diagnostics to be certain, instructions are in the manual).
Jim
Yamaha EX5, AN1X, TG500, Moog Werkstatt, Korg Wavestation SR, Sigma, Legacy Digital, Nord Modular G2, G2 Engine, Focusrite PRO 40, MIDISPORT 8x8/s, Uno, Arturia BeatStep, V Collection, Pigments | Love keyboards but so little time :(
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by dragon_x » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:56 am

Thank you for your answer.
I downloaded the files from here:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=9541&p=55985&hilit ... ory#p55985
I have completed the following steps:

1) Power on while holding the [EXIT] button.

2) Insert Demo Disk 1.

3) Press the [DISK] button.

4) Press the [F2] LOAD button.

5) Select [ALL].

6) Press the [ENTER] button twice.

7) Press the [YES] button.
according to the instructions from:
http://faq.yamaha.com/us/en/article/mus ... _procedure

I have to try using a different disk drive because I have the impression that there is something wrong with my disk drive on the usb
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by Derek » Sat Feb 17, 2018 9:14 am

Hi,

Have you tried formatting a spare disk on the EX7 first and use that in the PC to copy the files onto. It sounds like it might be a head alignment difference between the two drives
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by jima » Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:32 am

Just a few quick questions - did the ZIP file you downloaded unzip OK?

Why do you hold the [Exit] button when you power on?

Please confirm USB drive is on PC and you are using the built-in drive on the EX7.

BTW always best to follow the advice Derek gave - always, always, always format on the EX.
Jim
Yamaha EX5, AN1X, TG500, Moog Werkstatt, Korg Wavestation SR, Sigma, Legacy Digital, Nord Modular G2, G2 Engine, Focusrite PRO 40, MIDISPORT 8x8/s, Uno, Arturia BeatStep, V Collection, Pigments | Love keyboards but so little time :(
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by parametric » Sat Feb 17, 2018 1:03 pm

jima wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 11:32 am
BTW always best to follow the advice Derek gave - always, always, always format on the EX.
Sound advice from <jima> there.

Your USB floppy will be an HD Drive (1.44Mb), the EX7's will be a DD Drive, (720k) The head size (height) in this drive is TWICE the height of the USB Drive's head . . . .

This link helps explain WHY this is a problem: viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6324&hilit=disks+e ... =15#p32435

parametric
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NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by jima » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:04 pm

Must admit, it was my understanding that both the EX5 and EX7 were HD drives. Any EX7 owner could confirm positively?
Jim
Yamaha EX5, AN1X, TG500, Moog Werkstatt, Korg Wavestation SR, Sigma, Legacy Digital, Nord Modular G2, G2 Engine, Focusrite PRO 40, MIDISPORT 8x8/s, Uno, Arturia BeatStep, V Collection, Pigments | Love keyboards but so little time :(
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by Miks » Sat Feb 17, 2018 4:47 pm

The EX floppy disk drive is a Mitsubishi MF355F-3252MG - afaik it is a 2HD/DD drive. See also snippet from the service manual - Test Routines - Floppy Test:
Floppy.jpg
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500,
TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), DataBlade32 (1x),
WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by Derek » Sat Feb 17, 2018 7:48 pm

It should be 1.44MB drive.
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Derek Cook

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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by dragon_x » Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:00 am

thank you all for your advice. The problem turned out to be floppy disks. I found a new floppy disk, formatted it in EX7, uploaded files using a usb disk drive and everything works.

I used 1,44MB HD floppy disks.

Now I have to solve further issues.
I want to expand my memory. According to the instructions fit any Dram simm 72pin 70ns or faster. From what I read from the instructions must be assembled in pairs. Is this memory used only for samples?

Another issue. Is it possible to mount a SCSI hard drive inside the instrument in EX7? It is possible in EX5 but can it be done in EX7? I know I need to buy a SCSI controller, I am already looking for it :)

Do you know any tutorials about creating sounds for the EX series? There is not much on Youtube, unfortunately. I was looking for google and also little or nothing.

Thank you in advance for your help :)
Best wishes.
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Daniel
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by Miks » Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:09 am

I want to expand my memory. According to the instructions fit any Dram simm 72pin 70ns or faster. From what I read from the instructions must be assembled in pairs. Is this memory used only for samples?
Yes, that memory is for samples - the flash memory keeps the stored samples even if you switch the EX OFF - so no need to reload :D

You can buy a pair of flash memory at a decent price on Sector101 - the runner of this site/business is also a member here, known as 'shadowmask' - please see here:

https://sector101.co.uk/exflm.html

You should be quick - they sell 'in a blink' :wink:
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500,
TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), DataBlade32 (1x),
WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by jima » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:52 am

dragon_x wrote:
Mon Feb 19, 2018 12:00 am
I want to expand my memory. According to the instructions fit any Dram simm 72pin 70ns or faster. From what I read from the instructions must be assembled in pairs. Is this memory used only for samples?
{...}
Do you know any tutorials about creating sounds for the EX series? There is not much on Youtube, unfortunately. I was looking for google and also little or nothing.
Glad you got your diskette issue sorted. As diskettes fell out of favour the quality of what was available dropped quite considerably, especially the HD versions. If I have a need, I often have to go through two or three to find a good one.

Yes, the DRAM is only used for samples and can be up to 64Mb. It must be used in pairs. The EX5 hails from the days of the '486 computers so any RAM you can pick up from that era will likely do the job. You should avoid ram with parity, and what was called then 'EDO' ram. It would not be guaranteed to fail but was always problematic.

Additionally, as Miks points out, you can also fit 'flash' ram which will retain samples even when powered off. These also must be used in pairs and the limit is 16Mb. Be aware that the Yamaha memory display is in 16-bit words so the 64Mb and 16Mb flash ram display as 34078720 and 8388608 words respectively.

'The Joy of EX' is a good primer for the EX and can be found here
Jim
Yamaha EX5, AN1X, TG500, Moog Werkstatt, Korg Wavestation SR, Sigma, Legacy Digital, Nord Modular G2, G2 Engine, Focusrite PRO 40, MIDISPORT 8x8/s, Uno, Arturia BeatStep, V Collection, Pigments | Love keyboards but so little time :(
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by dragon_x » Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:00 pm

Thank you for the advice. I found several SIMM modules at home, including a pair of 2x4MB. I mounted and it works :)

By the way, it turned out that I was the first person who opened the flip. All screws were black, with no screwdriver marks. It is similar on a large flap. the bottom of the instrument, not counting a few small scratches, is in perfect condition.

I will be looking for a 2x32MB extension but for the beginning it's enough to have 2x4MB.
The SIMM modules are unfortunately 70ns, but I have not noticed any problems so far.

I am looking for information on whether it can fit inside a hard drive, as it can be done in EX5. I came up with the idea of ​​using a SCSI to SD adapter. The question is, would it work? I do not have a SCSI controller on board, so I have to look for :(
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by jima » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:35 pm

Good news, and don't worry about the 70nS cycle time, anything faster will be just waiting around for the CPU, won't go any faster in real life.

Can't answer the question about the HD, I don't have an EX7 so don't know if the internals will accommodate an HD but most folks go for either CF or SD so it isn't really an issue in that case. My main EX5 is converted and where the floppy was an adapter takes CF, Smart-media and PCMCIA and some folks try with floppy to SD converters with various degrees of success. Thing is, for big samples you need something which isn't limited to 1.44Mb max. There are plenty of posts on this topic, have a hunt around and see which suits you best. I'd try to avoid the HD route, equipment of this era needs drives which haven't been made for quite a while - I even converted my Fusion 8HD to an SSD drive for reasons of heat and availability.
Jim
Yamaha EX5, AN1X, TG500, Moog Werkstatt, Korg Wavestation SR, Sigma, Legacy Digital, Nord Modular G2, G2 Engine, Focusrite PRO 40, MIDISPORT 8x8/s, Uno, Arturia BeatStep, V Collection, Pigments | Love keyboards but so little time :(
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Re: EX7, a problem with reading banks of sounds from a floppy disk

Unread post by dragon_x » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:24 am

I thank you for your answer. I am looking for a scsi controller and a matching scsi adapter is sd or scsi to cf. unfortunately in EX7 there is probably no space for a physical scsi drive. :(
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