EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by EX5_etc »

tux wrote:That's why so far I have been buying compatible EEPROMs and FlashPROMs, there is no need to still use old fashioned UV erasable EPROMs when there are far more convenient compatible alternatives out there (unless you still have old stock of UV erasable EPROMs lying around).
Any chance you know of such an alternative for the 27C800? If there is one I would like to have a look at it.

Thanks.
DrF
Motif XF6, DeepMind 12, DeepMind 12D, MicroArranger, MicroKorg S, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MDF3, MJC8, EMX2, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49, AKAI Pro Advance 49, Arturia KeyLab mkII 61, Novation 25SL Mk2, NI Maschine 2, and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by tux »

EX5_etc wrote: Any chance you know of such an alternative for the 27C800? If there is one I would like to have a look at it.
I haven't used any chip that size (as I said my burner only takes <=40 pin chips), but I have had good experiences with SST Flash-EPROM technology in general, I have used SST-27SF256 and SST-27SF512 as 27C256 and 27C512 substitutes respectively.

Check out this document for SST drop-in replacements of other EPROMs:
http://www.mcumall.com/Datasheet/sst_cross_guide.pdf

Here is another useful cross-list:
http://wiki.xtronics.com/index.php/How_ ... Cross_list
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by EX5_etc »

Thanks for the links, tux. They are a very good reference to have. Unfortunately the 27C800 is not there so for now I'll have to continue with EPROM chips and the Willem programmer. I am going to check if any of those EPROMs on the chart is pin compatible with the ones I care about.

In the mean time I had a request by another member to post the EX-series ROMs. So this morning I woke up (with one eye open) and there was a two-hour gap in my schedule. I had a cup of coffee and the other eye opened too. But things were still out of focus because I am getting old and I need to use reading glasses more and more often. Before I proceed I'll let the laugh from the older members here subdue a little after the "sheesh, I have been there already..."

OK, now back to the subject. Since I had time I took the EX5R out of storage, set up the programmer, and started removing ROMs from the synth to make backup copies. The zipped files are posted below and after expansion they will give you four 1MB ".bin" files to burn as you please. Each ROM was read once and was verified/compared to the ".bin" file twice. I did not program any EPROM chips with the files. Thus, if anyone takes the time to use the files and program chips please let us know how they work for you.

In case that any Yamaha lawyers call, it is up to Saul to remove the files. It may also be a good idea to have these files in the download section along with the A3000 sampler (version 2) ROM I posted earlier. Yamaha does not provide service for their old products anymore, so we will have to do it ourselves.

Here are the latest ROMs for the EX5/5R/7 series that I got from Yamaha free of charge years ago. Your synth will decide which portion of the ROMs to use, you don't have to choose anything or set any jumpers/switches.

EX-5/5R/7 Main1 (L) V1.11 XT350I01:
EX_5-5R-7 Main1 (L) V1.11 XT350I01.zip
(369.97 KiB) Downloaded 385 times
EX-5/5R/7 Main2 (H) V1.11 XT351I01:
EX_5-5R-7 Main2 (H) V1.11 XT351I01.zip
(355.51 KiB) Downloaded 333 times
EX-5/5R/7 TG1 (L) V1.14 XT352206:
EX_5-5R-7 TG1 (L) V1.14 XT352206.zip
(387.22 KiB) Downloaded 346 times
EX-5/5R/7 TG2 (H) V1.14 XT353206:
EX_5-5R-7 TG2 (H) V1.14 XT353206.zip
(373.96 KiB) Downloaded 342 times
Enjoy.
DrF
Last edited by EX5_etc on Sun Nov 09, 2014 4:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Motif XF6, DeepMind 12, DeepMind 12D, MicroArranger, MicroKorg S, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MDF3, MJC8, EMX2, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49, AKAI Pro Advance 49, Arturia KeyLab mkII 61, Novation 25SL Mk2, NI Maschine 2, and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by Miks »

DrF, afaik you can use a 27C160 instead of a 27C800.
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by EX5_etc »

Hi Miks.

The datasheet of the 27c160 has been on the same folder in my hard drive with the datasheet of the 27c800 for almost two months now. Back in September when I was searching for information on programmers I checked various forums and in one of them a user suggested to another user to buy a 27c160 in place of the 27c800 that was not readily available. Then the second user asked what to do with the empty 50% of the 27c160 and the first user told him to either fill both 1MB sections with the same data or simply ignore the second half since pin 42 of the 27c800 was not used ever (pin 42 is NC for the 800 and A19 for the 160). I had forgotten about this until I read your comment today.

It still does not change anything. It appears that there is no equivalent for the 27c160 either.

Thanks anyway.
DrF

(Just a remark here, that I forgot to add in my previous post, for whoever it may apply to: if I notice more EX-series ROMs been sold on ebay you can bet your ass I'll call Yamaha's lawyers on you. The files were posted here for the other members to use on their synths if they can burn ROMs, not in order to make anyone's pocket a bit heavier in coins. I hope I make my point clear.)
Last edited by EX5_etc on Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:02 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Motif XF6, DeepMind 12, DeepMind 12D, MicroArranger, MicroKorg S, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MDF3, MJC8, EMX2, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49, AKAI Pro Advance 49, Arturia KeyLab mkII 61, Novation 25SL Mk2, NI Maschine 2, and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by jima »

EX5_etc wrote:(Just a remark here, that I forgot to add in my previous post, for whoever it may apply to: if I notice more EX-series ROMs been sold on ebay you can bet your ass I'll call Yamaha's lawyers on you. The files were posted here for the other members to use on their synths if they can burn ROMs, not in order to make anyone's pocket a bit heavier in coins. I hope I make my point clear.)
OK, that's going too far. You post the files here - a clear infringement of Yamaha's IP rights - where anybody can get them, enabling them to program EPROMS and sell them if they can get them and you then you get all self-righteous and threaten doom and destruction if they dare to do it? I'm sorry, you just lost your right to get all high and mighty about that by posting the files here in the first place.

Oh, it's OK though because the mods can delete them because if Yamaha (or others) decide to make an issue of it they can always delete them. Well, I was always taught that doing something illegal was not really justified by trying 'take-backs' later when you got caught. Mods should remove these files immediately.

How's about I call Yamaha down on your ass for doing it in the first place? I hope I make my point clear.
Jim
Yamaha EX5, AN1X, TG500, Moog Werkstatt, Korg Wavestation SR, Sigma, Legacy Digital, Nord Modular G2, G2 Engine, Focusrite PRO 40, MIDISPORT 8x8/s, Uno, Arturia Keylab 49 MkII, BeatStep, V Collection, Pigments | Love keyboards but so little time :(

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by EX5_etc »

You can have whatever opinion you want and also do whatever the hell you want. I could not care less. The files were posted to help those that need them and can use them because Yamaha does not distribute them anymore. They simply chose to end support for the EX-series without caring if people still use the instruments and perhaps still make a living out of them. I know what I am doing and how legal or illegal it is. As a professional engineer with a doctorate I work occasionally as expert witness in court trials for copyright cases. They look at it in a different way if you infringe for profit or for non-profit or in order to cause harm to the IP owner. There are different categories of infringement and they depend on many factors: type of software, original cost of software, number of copies made, active or not active, etc, etc.

We have sites that distribute the service manuals for thousands of devices out there, including many for Yamaha products, manuals that were never meant to be distributed and they are still the IP of the original owner/maker. But those sites distribute them for free without charging a dime. They are up and running for years. Now, if those sites were asking that you contribute at least one or more manuals to be able to download another, then it would be different. Along with the infringement comes the issue of fair use and all this is up to a judge to decide.

On ebay there are (or were) people who sold copies of ROMs, copies of service manuals and copies of official sample CDs for the A4000/A5000 samplers. None of that was theirs so I took care of them whenever I could. I won't elaborate more as to what I did or plan to do in the future.

It's a different thing to help someone without pay and a different one to do so for pay. You cannot go around saying "here are copies of your A5000 CDs" and selling them because you imply that the owner of the A5000 is a retard who cannot make such copies. As if it is ever possible for someone who can operate a complex machine like the A5000 to not be able to make a copy of a CD. It's OK to sell the originals but not OK to sell copies. You want to give copies away for free because the originals are not available anymore? Be my guest.

Not to mention the "I had bought a few sets of EX5 ROMs so I am selling them now" but please don't look at the EX5 synth I am selling on a different auction. I never used that and my programmer to make the ROM sets, they are originals indeed. Give me a break. A friend who is a priest said once that sneaky people think of sneaky thoughts. It's self explanatory.

Saul can make the ultimate decision to take down the files whenever he pleases.

DrF
Last edited by EX5_etc on Sun Nov 09, 2014 5:06 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Motif XF6, DeepMind 12, DeepMind 12D, MicroArranger, MicroKorg S, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MDF3, MJC8, EMX2, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49, AKAI Pro Advance 49, Arturia KeyLab mkII 61, Novation 25SL Mk2, NI Maschine 2, and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by parametric »

Hi DrF,

I've been around this forum long enough to appreciate your "take" on this topic, as you have re-iterated it many times . . .

My own opinion (FWIW) is that, as Users of these boards, we have the right to maintain them in working order -

1) As long as we are able

2) By whatever means are at our disposal.

This may well include burning ROM images, if we are fortunate enough to discover where some "kind soul" has made them available . . . :wink:

In the normal course of events we would have got these from Yamaha, but a decision was obviously made by them to end support - and with it, access to various component parts - possibly purely a policy decision, but possibly also that the stockholdings had simply "run out" of certain parts.

Such decisions are always based on financial considerations (IME) such that Yamaha no longer expected to make significant money supporting these instruments. So they drew a line under them.

So - users are out in the cold and therefore have no choice other than to fend for themselves.

I see no harm in someone who HAS THE FACILITY, offering to do the burn on an ad hoc basis, either supplying the chips OR burning user's own chips, on an "at-cost + a few Beers" basis.

Whilst we like to help - it cannot be charity. No one should expect anyone to work for nothing.

I DO see harm in setting up a bulk "operation" as you have described. THAT is unashamedly about MAKING MONEY, and as you point out, often from someone else's work.

I absolutely APPLAUD what Brian has done/ IS doing in this respect. I have a number of his products, and my SY85 is as good as it ever was.

In Yamaha's eyes - the customer base is SMALL - as indeed are Brian's batches of product, indeed the Sweet16 project was MOSTLY dependent on customer-provided MCD64s. A real one-in, one-out deal.

With the ROM images, perhaps some users instruments have earlier firmware?

If support was still happening - they'd have got the updates from Yamaha - but cannot any longer.

So I see no "sin" in getting the upgrade along with the new ROMs.

As I've said before - I'm sure that our tiny customer base would be seen by Yamaha as "so much small fry" and would not make economic sense for them to get involved. Nor indeed would they consider there was any "mileage" in pi55ing-off existing (and potentially, Future) customers. They have much bigger fish to fry I'm sure.

All that said though, It would indeed be UNWISE NOT to be aware of legalities and thinking that are involved, when proceeding down these paths.

I'm rather of the opinion that if we DON'T MAKE BIG WAVES (NO pun intended) We won't invite a visit from the BIG FISH.

This is just my opinion, you understand :D

parametric
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by EX5_etc »

Agreed with everything you said parametric. Yamaha's ROMs are just one of the many items that are sold by people who are not authorized to do so. There are ROMs on ebay and elsewhere for Atari, Amiga, game consoles and other devices that are not supported by the manufacturers anymore. Either because the factory closed or because the person(s) who did this for the manufacturer simply retired. I am leaning mostly in this direction regarding the end of support for the EX-series in the USA. Mister Avery from the service department left and nobody replaced him, so support was over.

The ROMs I posted were always free and the end user had to pay only for the return shipping of the old ones. That is how I got them a long time ago. It was fair and square especially because an external device was required to do the upgrade/programming. Yamaha sent me free ROM images on CD and free service manuals sometimes. That is why I bought almost all of my toys from them. These days we have EEPROMs and FLASH memories in our devices and thus upgrades through the internet make life easier.

To all of these we can add the $25 to $50 "50,000/100,000 midi files" CDs that are also sold on ebay and elsewhere. CDs where someone included freeware utilities or stolen samples and midi files that belonged to others and they were (or still are) distributed for free. No respect for the work of others by those sellers.

Anyhow, we shall see how everything works out. I think we beat the horse too much already. :/:

DrF
Motif XF6, DeepMind 12, DeepMind 12D, MicroArranger, MicroKorg S, SY99, SY85, QS300, PSR1000, WX5, EX5R, A5000, TG500, TG55, RM50, QY700, QY100, QX5FD, MDF3, MJC8, EMX2, YDP2006, REV500, EMP700, EQ500U, MCS2, AW16G, Axiom Pro 49, AKAI Pro Advance 49, Arturia KeyLab mkII 61, Novation 25SL Mk2, NI Maschine 2, and a few other things by Behringer, Evolution, Philips, Tascam, Technical Pro, Yamaha, etc, etc,... I wish I had time to use all this stuff; I am not even pro. :-)

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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

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Fully ack para!

I like to keep my gear's firmware as 'up to date' as possible - even if I still haven't recognized any issues caused by an older firmware. And I'll do whatever is necessary to reach this goal. The update for my EX5R - well, I purchased those Eproms - but they're NOT coming from Yamaha! I mailed a few companies for those updates - only ONE of them was (nearly) able to help - but that would have been expensive AND only one half of the upgrade :!:

They offered me 2 (two) Eproms for the TG V. 1.14 for a ridiculous price: in total 346,98 Euros 8O :!: :evil:

That's when I said: No, thanks! and purchased a set 'appearing from nowhere'. And it's understood that I saved those binaries - 'just in case - you never know' ! :wink:

There were some folks asking me for those files - and yes! - I gave them away - for free! It's not my intention to draw any cash out of it - I just like to help - and I like to be helped (sometimes in return).

If Yamaha isn't able (or don't want to) help with upgrades for such outdated gear - what else should we do? Just give in? No thanks, not my style... :D

Just my 2 cents...
Last edited by Miks on Sun Nov 09, 2014 3:25 pm, edited 2 times in total.
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
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TX-802, YMM2
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by parametric »

ABSOLUTELY Miks . . . . .

These older boards find favour with many, because we LIKE the sounds they make.

Often, we have spent YEARS learning them, such that using them is easy, and can be done almost without thinking.

THAT "familiarity" is hard-won, and not to be relinquished without a fight.

SURE, its nice to have a shiny new board and revel in the advances that have been made in sound quality (perhaps) or sample memory (probably) or polyphony (almost certainly) or storage etc etc . . . .

BUT - the learning process starts again - and, if you are heavily involved in either Performing OR Composing Music, the brakes go ON, WHILE you re-learn the "how-tos" on your new board.

So the excitement is tinged with DREAD.

Therefore we become EXTREMELY INTERESTED in WHATEVER way there may be to give our old boards ETERNAL LIFE (Or as near as we can get to it :lol: ).

This is where the "Forum" becomes so important - and I'm happy and proud to to be a member of a Forum that is SO GOOD at this.

LONG may it continue.

parametric
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by jima »

EX5_etc wrote:You can have whatever opinion you want and also do whatever the hell you want. I could not care less. The files were posted to help those that need them and can use them because Yamaha does not distribute them anymore [sic].
Well, I'm disappointed but not really surprised. I imagined that your reaction would be along those lines. The thing is, despite your attempt to justify your actions and cloud the issue with your 'experience and qualifications' the rhetoric is old and tired and frankly inapplicable. Yamaha doesn't distribute them any more so rip them off. Yamaha doesn't help any more - just rip them off. Can't say that I (and many others) haven't been tempted many times to step in and provide a burning service for desperate users so upgrades could be readily and cheaply available without IP infringement. Do you really think you are the only one? Many of us could have posted such files years ago. Such arrogance. Thing is, if you have ever dug into the code you will find that it isn't only Yamaha's IP in there.

Well, Pandora really has opened the box, requests for copies are appearing on other sites thanks to you and Yamaha Forums. Will Yamaha care and do anything? Perhaps not, but my guess is that they will not fail to notice and they will not forget and at some point in the future when you are trying to figure out why Yamaha are not as 'helpful' as you think they should be then remember this day and be proud of your actions.

I fully support the distribution of upgrade software at no/low/reasonable cost for all users of Yamaha products _but_ with the approval of Yamaha themselves. It is my opinion that they went above and beyond for many years for the EX5 through several of their subsidiaries, and would cite Yamaha US and UK as exemplary examples of such. Perhaps Yamaha don't care about this any more but I think we have made a small win here and potentially have much to lose in the future thanks to people like you.

Finally, blatant copyright infringement of any sort is not something I am willing to be part of so I call upon the site operators to make a formal declaration here either condoning this practice or not in which case take action to remove such and prevent any such further actions.

What say you?
Jim
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by tux »

Jima, are you serious?

These old synths only continue to live because we help out each other for free, nobody is profiting from this and Yamaha isn't missing out on a single penny since they aren't supporting these old synths anymore.

Your rant is completely out of place and your legal argument of copyright infringement is rather dubious too as copyright laws aren't absolute, there are quite a few exceptions relating to fair use and personal use.

If you want to get worked up about something that makes sense why don't you focus on ebay sellers that sell pirated stuff on ebay for a large profit?
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by AJay »

@jima:

I think you're being a bit harsh on EX5etc there. He's only trying to help other users out from a possible dead end situation when they need old updates that they can't get anymore, not without getting taken to the cleaners and fleeced at any rate.

I'm in the same agreement camp as EX5, Para and Miks and agree with Paras' statement about Yammy not doing themselves any favours if they clobber past/existing users for no real gain. It would be almost like saying, "please don't buy a Motif".

Also, I echo tuxs' previous statement above, especially the first and last sentences.
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Re: EPROM Programmers: Willem and maybe others?

Unread post by IsoldeIsobelle »

Hi!






But, I can not help thinking that this overtly cautious approach helps no one and the fact that within that same thread it was twice suggested that maybe I could obtain the required chips from sellers on eBay (posts that have subsequently not been deleted!) - fairly hypocritical and suggestive of double standards. That this thread upon this forum is openly making constructive debate upon a seemingly contentious issue, with both sides of the argument fairly represented, is refreshing and to be encouraged... aside current users like myself, there will be future users who will also find themselves in the same predicament and perhaps in some small or large way we are all helping to find a happy resolution to this problem.

Anyway, I am not here to criticise other much appreciated forums and I will now stick to this threads concerns.

Firstly, I would like to wholeheartedly thank the member for making the files available, I think that this is an enlightened viewpoint and a kind gift to the community... although I do not have a burner, at least now, I can either follow the advice given here on the use of these items and buy one.. or hopefully find a person who will be able to do the burning for me.

I have two EX5R's both with 1.03 OS - yes the MIDI is sloppy, but, I worked around this simply by not using the sequencer.
My current need for updated EPROMS has came about from the plan to use one of the units in a live context in the near future and I really need the timing to be rock solid as I do intend to use both the arpeggiator and sequencer during my set..... so, for me, this thread and those files are a timely godsend.

I would rather not line the pockets of eBay sellers and keep it in the community, so to speak.

Looking at the low number of times the files have so far been downloaded from this public site, I am not expecting a deluge of illegitimate offers on aforementioned auction site anytime soon, rather I think that the handful of people, including myself, who have acquired them now feel, at last, empowered to correct what Yamaha are not inclined to do for them.

Thank you very much once again EX5etc, if you are at anytime in Scotland.... the first round is on me.
Last edited by IsoldeIsobelle on Sat Jul 25, 2015 8:32 am, edited 2 times in total.

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