Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Covering the SY22 to SY55 and TG Modules.

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dbm123
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Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by dbm123 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:34 pm

Good day to everyone. This is my first post here. I am currently working to recreate part of a studio setup I had years ago. Two of the keyboards I have repurchased as part of this project are an SY22 and an SY35. I was fortunate enough to find an SY22 that was still brand new in the box. I am thinking I should replace the battery but it is working just fine. The SY35 I purchased used on eBay. It arrived yesterday and I noticed that single voices from all memory banks play properly. However, when I put the synth in Multi mode -- there is no sound. I thumbed through the manual but didn't see anywhere obvious to check for an incorrect setting that would be preventing the sound from playing. Ideas?

db7

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by db7 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:02 pm

Hi and welcome. I think more information is needed on what you have or have not tried. What are you trying to play Multi mode from: the keyboard or MIDI? And does this problem apply to all Multi presets, including the factory ones?

Speaking of factory, have you tried a factory reset? And how is the battery? In case of most apparent problems, it is recommended to ensure the battery is alive and perform a factory reset in the first instance so that we can rule out damaged settings as a cause of the problem. Messed-up settings, often due to an expired battery, can lead to all sorts of weird and illogical behaviour.

If that has all been done, check the properties of each individual voice such as the low and high key limits, which MIDI channel it is set to receive, and so on. Maybe something there is the culprit. Since the SY35 only has one stereo output, I doubt the problem can be related to output mapping or anything like that.

dbm123
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by dbm123 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:15 pm

I am trying to play Multi Mode from the keyboard itself. I am trying to play the factory multi presets.

db7

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by db7 » Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:27 pm

Please see the edits I just made, mainly the new second paragraph.

dbm123
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by dbm123 » Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:12 am

I have changed out the battery and performed a reset to factory of voices and multi. Local is on and lo and hi key range limits should allow me to play. But... its the same as before: voices play fine, switching to multi mode results in no sound.... neither from the main outs or from the headphone out. Ideas?

Luckyman
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Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by Luckyman » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:10 am

Did you turn off 'Memory Protect' before doing the reset ?

Do the names of the voices in the Multi appear below the Multi name when selected ? (Pxx,Pxx,Pxx,Pxx etc).

Does the Demo play OK ? - it uses Multi no. 28

It's some years since I had an SY35, so I'm just going through the manual looking for ideas !

Have you tried it without it being connected to some other MIDI equipment ?
SY99 - SY85 - DX27 -XV-5050 - Jen SX2000 - Nord Micro-Modular - Cheetah MK-149 - DJX mark 1 (stop laughing) - Too many guitars - Too many reverb/delay units - too many computers - Studiomaster Mixdown 16-8-16 8-Bus analogue mixing desk with 8 channel expansion - 2x M-Audio Delta 1010 + Firewire 410 + 2xAudiophile 192 - a chair to sit on - no more space - ...but have just managed to squeeze in a Novation X-Station 49 somehow...

dbm123
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by dbm123 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:50 pm

Luckyman wrote:Did you turn off 'Memory Protect' before doing the reset ?

Yes, I did.

Do the names of the voices in the Multi appear below the Multi name when selected ? (Pxx,Pxx,Pxx,Pxx etc).

Yes.

Does the Demo play OK ? - it uses Multi no. 28

Yes, the demo plays.

It's some years since I had an SY35, so I'm just going through the manual looking for ideas !

Have you tried it without it being connected to some other MIDI equipment ?
Some of my answers are in-line up above. The synth is not connected to any other gear via MIDI. And, yes... Local is ON.

Ideas anyone?

dbm123
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:05 pm

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by dbm123 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 2:00 am

Any ideas? Should I call Yamaha? Would they even talk to me about this since the synth is old?

db7

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by db7 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:15 am

The only thing that struck me when reading the manual was a note that at least some of the Multis depend upon the SY35 being set to transmit and receive on the same MIDI channel, even for its own keyboard. Is that definitely the case with yours? Although a rather baffling situation, it certainly sounds like it could, in fact most likely, somehow be an issue caused by MIDI channels.

At least to me, if you have performed a factory reset and then followed the instructions in the manual and all suggestions here, including the above, I cannot think of any reason for this lack of sound. Perhaps some other user might have a very clever insight.

Luckyman
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Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by Luckyman » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:45 am

I read the 'Feature Reference Manual' and found this (page 53)....

Details: The MIDI transmit channel job is used
primarily to match the transmit channel of the
SY35 with the receive channel of an external
MIDI device being driven by the SY35. When a
multi-play setup is selected, however, the MIDI
transmit channel setting also determines which
of the setup’s voices is played via the SY35
keyboard.

Obviously, (now I think about it) multi voices will be all set to receive on different MIDI channels, so I think the key here is to check the TRANSMIT channel is set to e.g. '1' and the basic receive channel is set to Omni.

From what I read in the manuals, the reset procedure only initializes the factory voices and multis, and is not really a 'factory reset' at all.

It would make no sense to reset the SY35 to a state where the Multi's don't play as described in the manual !
SY99 - SY85 - DX27 -XV-5050 - Jen SX2000 - Nord Micro-Modular - Cheetah MK-149 - DJX mark 1 (stop laughing) - Too many guitars - Too many reverb/delay units - too many computers - Studiomaster Mixdown 16-8-16 8-Bus analogue mixing desk with 8 channel expansion - 2x M-Audio Delta 1010 + Firewire 410 + 2xAudiophile 192 - a chair to sit on - no more space - ...but have just managed to squeeze in a Novation X-Station 49 somehow...

db7

Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by db7 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:55 pm

Nice, more evidence for what I suspected above.

If that is the case, it seems the reset in question (and is that the only one?) does not touch overall system options, only patches and the like.

dbm123, please check the transmitting and receiving channels, set them to be the same if they are not, and then let us know whether that fixes the problem.

This seems by far the most likely cause. Considering that the demo plays, there is obviously no problem with Multi mode intrinsically: I bet the demo is just set to transmit and receive on the right channels, but the settings for the keyboard itself have become mismatched at some point in the lifetime of the synth.

SiriusHardware
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Re: Single Voices Play Fine but Multi Mode = No Sound

Unread post by SiriusHardware » Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:29 pm

Based on my ownership of the SY22, quite a few of the Preset multis are set up so that all of the multi parts receive on the same channel, but each multi part responds only to certain note ranges. It's quite flexible like that.

You can program, say, a bass sound on the lowest octave of the keyboard and a lead sound on the rest.

'Haunted' is a good example of an SY22 Preset multi which produces different sounds depending on which zone of the keyboard you play. I realise it's the SY35 you are having trouble with, but they are unlikely to be very different.

When creating a multi yourself you'd be more likely to put multi parts 1-7 on MIDI channels 1-7 and multi part 8 probably on MIDI channel 16, traditionally the 'drum' channel on multitimbral Yamahas.

If you do that the keyboard will only play one part of the multi at a time, depending on which transmit channel the instrument has selected. For example, if you have multi part 8 set to receive on channel 16 and have voice P88 selected either manually or by sending a program change, then you will need to change the keyboard's transmit channel to channel 16 to play drum sounds.

When you turn local 'off' and everything is going through a Sequencer / DAW then, broadly, it's the setup in that software which determines which multi part plays when you play on the keyboard.

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