TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

Moderators: Derek, parametric, Saul

User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Mon Jun 10, 2019 9:11 pm

Hi,

I have a TG77 that came with an MCD64. When I recieved it I tried loading patches from the card but they ended up just producing garbled random presets. I assumed the battery was dead and replaced it.

I'm now trying to format it but I keep getting the write protected error even when the switch on the card it set to off.

I've tested the card in my SPX990 and it works as expected. If I set the switch to protected it won't save but if I set it to 'protect off' it formats and saves fine.

Is there something wrong with the TG77 memory port perhaps?

Cheers,

Jesse
User avatar Wales
Derek
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by Derek » Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:55 pm

Hi

As you have taken steps to verify the card works as expected in another synth, then it must be problem in the TG card interface. Might be worth having a look at the connector, which may have some tarnished contacts, or a bad connection in another form.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:52 pm

Derek wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:55 pm
Hi

As you have taken steps to verify the card works as expected in another synth, then it must be problem in the TG card interface. Might be worth having a look at the connector, which may have some tarnished contacts, or a bad connection in another form.
Hi Derek,

Thanks. When the TG77 was shipped to me the card was inserted into the slot so there's a small chance it might have damaged it. Ideally it would have been taken out for shipping.

Cheers,

Jesse
User avatar Wales
Derek
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 4671
Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2007 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by Derek » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:45 pm

Hi, Jesse

Yes, that is possible. Also on old systems connector springs can go weak and connectors can oxidise or tarnish, so it might be something simple. The good thing is you can eliminate the card being a problem if it works in something else, so you know what to focus on.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:53 pm

Thanks. Had a look inside the slot with a torch and it all seems in order. Not sure how the slot is constructed but it doesn't seem like there is much give had the card got pushed in. So it doesn't look like it's faulty from that side of things. I could open the unit for now I'll just leave it as the memory card was a bonus anyway (the seller hadn't mentioned it).

I'll try to see how the write protect system works. It recognizes the card fine so not sure what could be missing.

Cheers
User avatar Great Britain
parametric
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
Posts: 3659
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by parametric » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:15 pm

Is it possible that you have to enable "write" to the slot within the TG's menus somewhere? -

in addition to write-enabling the Card . . . . .

i.e. Turn <Protect> OFF . . . . .somewhere?

This might default to <Off> each time the TG powers on . . . . ?

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:21 pm

parametric wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:15 pm
Is it possible that you have to enable "write" to the slot within the TG's menus somewhere? -

in addition to write-enabling the Card . . . . .

i.e. Turn <Protect> OFF . . . . .somewhere?

This might default to <Off> each time the TG powers on . . . . ?

parametric
Thanks I thought of that too but I couldn't find anything in the manual or a Google search (let alone the menus of the TG77). I did see a reference to write protect for sysex dumps but I think that's a separate process (and I didn't find it in the menu for MIDI either).
User avatar Great Britain
shadowmask
sector101.co.uk
sector101.co.uk
Posts: 548
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by shadowmask » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:34 am

The TG77 service manual shows some tests that can be performed on the card:
https://www.sector101.co.uk/external/fo ... g77_sm.pdf

The Test Programs start at Page 21

The WP switch controls two circuits:
1. It sends a signal to the TG77 to indicate that the switch is in the WP position
2. It disables the Write signal reaching the memorys ICs when in the WP position

Brian
Sector101 - Memory Solutions for Synthesizers
SY85 / TG500 / TG300 / Supernova II / MOXF-6 / FG410
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Thu Jun 13, 2019 5:31 pm

shadowmask wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:34 am
The TG77 service manual shows some tests that can be performed on the card:

The Test Programs start at Page 21

The WP switch controls two circuits:
1. It sends a signal to the TG77 to indicate that the switch is in the WP position
2. It disables the Write signal reaching the memorys ICs when in the WP position

Brian
Hi Brian,

Thanks for pointing to that page. I tried the test and it shows the protect switch working correctly (it moves from 0 to 1 depending on the position).

I did try the read/write test and that failed although I assume that's down to the card not being formatted.

The rest of the tests seem fine too (voltage was 3.3v).

Any other ideas? Seems strange the hardware appears to be working ok. Is there no other setting in the system that needs to be on to allow writing to the card?

Also when it says it tests the 'cards' (CARD1 and CARD2) what is that referring to? Does the MCD64 contain two memory locations?

Cheers,

Jesse
User avatar
Sonus
Member
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:00 am

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by Sonus » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:44 pm

Results with a TG77 formatted MCD64:

10 : D-Card Insert 0 → 1 ... OK
11 : D-Card R/Write CARD : 12 ... OK
12 : D-Card Protect 0 → 1 ... OK
13 : D-Card Battery 2.9V ... OK

When R/Write is executed with a MCD32 the result is "CARD : 1x ... NG"
What do you read on the card format screen? Format = SPX990?
The SPX990 supports MCD32 or MCD64 to store programs.
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:20 pm

Sonus wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:44 pm
Results with a TG77 formatted MCD64:

10 : D-Card Insert 0 → 1 ... OK
11 : D-Card R/Write CARD : 12 ... OK
12 : D-Card Protect 0 → 1 ... OK
13 : D-Card Battery 2.9V ... OK

When R/Write is executed with a MCD32 the result is "CARD : 1x ... NG"
What do you read on the card format screen? Format = SPX990?
The SPX990 supports MCD32 or MCD64 to store programs.
Thanks, that makes sense about CARD1/2 then. It just says Format = unformatted. Should it say SPX990?

What I found is that when I attempt to format it in the TG77 if I then put the card back into the SPX990 and try to save I get an error that says "Wrong ID Card". So it seems the TG77 is affecting the card's data even though it says it's protected. If I reformat in the SPX990 it works again there to save.
User avatar Great Britain
shadowmask
sector101.co.uk
sector101.co.uk
Posts: 548
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2005 1:00 am
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by shadowmask » Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:52 am

It is possible that the TG77 tries to verify the format but it is finding invalid data so just assumes the card is protected.

MCD cards have a history of becoming faulty over time but as it is working with the SPX that idea seems unlikely.

The fault then points to the TG77. The TG77 card connector is soldered directly to the PCB so that rules out a ribbon/flex cable problem inside the unit. If the connector is clean and all pins present that rules out connector damage.

The card could be faulty and the SPX is holding it it a different way causing the fault to clear.

Try formatting the card in the TG77 whilst:
1. Pushing up on the protruding edge.
2. Pushing down on the protruding edge.
3. Lightly twisting the edge clockwise.
3. Lightly twisting the edge anti-clockwise.

Most card faults are caused by a PCB trace shorting to the back metal cover. Putting pressure on the card in different directions may clear the fault. This won't fix the card but will rule out the TG itself as being faulty.

Brian
Sector101 - Memory Solutions for Synthesizers
SY85 / TG500 / TG300 / Supernova II / MOXF-6 / FG410
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:34 am

shadowmask wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 7:52 am
It is possible that the TG77 tries to verify the format but it is finding invalid data so just assumes the card is protected.

MCD cards have a history of becoming faulty over time but as it is working with the SPX that idea seems unlikely.

The fault then points to the TG77. The TG77 card connector is soldered directly to the PCB so that rules out a ribbon/flex cable problem inside the unit. If the connector is clean and all pins present that rules out connector damage.

The card could be faulty and the SPX is holding it it a different way causing the fault to clear.

Try formatting the card in the TG77 whilst:
1. Pushing up on the protruding edge.
2. Pushing down on the protruding edge.
3. Lightly twisting the edge clockwise.
3. Lightly twisting the edge anti-clockwise.

Most card faults are caused by a PCB trace shorting to the back metal cover. Putting pressure on the card in different directions may clear the fault. This won't fix the card but will rule out the TG itself as being faulty.

Brian
Thanks Brian. I had tried moving it around a bit more but just tried more extensively now and still no luck. I wish I had tried testing it before removing the battery to see if it would have saved then while still formatted.

Still wondering if the 'unformatted' message is normal for it being actually in SPX990 format. Not sure if anyone can test that. If it's meant to show SPX990 then it might point to more issues other than just the WP switch issue.

Cheers,

Jesse
User avatar
Sonus
Member
Member
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:00 am

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by Sonus » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:30 am

I'm quite sure the SPX990 formatted card should display the name.
With a RAM4 and ADP2, same 'Format = Unformatted !' appears.
With an adaptor, it's only possible to read data, not to write.
Of course also D-Card R/Write test fails 'CARD : x ... NG'.
User avatar Great Britain
medway
Member
Member
Posts: 10
Joined: Sun Sep 13, 2015 3:36 pm
Contact:

Re: TG77 and MCD64 write protected error

Unread post by medway » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:43 pm

Sonus wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:30 am
I'm quite sure the SPX990 formatted card should display the name.
With a RAM4 and ADP2, same 'Format = Unformatted !' appears.
With an adaptor, it's only possible to read data, not to write.
Of course also D-Card R/Write test fails 'CARD : x ... NG'.
Cheers. Guess short of opening up the unit there's probably not much I can test now. Will just stick with Sysex for the time being.
Post Reply

Return to “Yamaha SY77 Forum - Covers the Sy77 Keyboard and TG77 Module”