TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

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TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:34 am

Hello everyone, I am a microtonal composer and very inspired by the TG77. Without expanded data memory, the TG77 only lets you customize 2 microtonal scales, or "Internal micro tuning memory" according to the manual (page 106-107). I understand that a MCD64 data card will allow me additional Internal micro tuning data, but it's unclear to me exactly how many new scales.

I am also considering purchasing the Sector 101 DataBlade which seems to have the memory of 32 MCD64s combined and am wondering how many customized microtonal scales that would allow me to create.

Thank you very much for any insights.
-Weston
Last edited by EricaEsoMusic on Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: TG77 MCD cards and microtonality

Unread post by Sonus » Sun Jun 16, 2019 9:00 am

Hi Weston, two user scales per voice set, 64 on a Datablade32.

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TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:41 pm

OK so I now have a DataBlade with 32 partitions of memory. This allows me a total of 64 custom micro tunings.

According to the manual, an internal voice can't use a micro tuning on a card and a voice on a card can't use an internal micro tuning. So what I thought I'd be doing was:

1) custom edit a micro scale on the internal memory and then
2) transfer to a partition on the datablade.

Problem: When going to "Micro Tuning Set" (Jump #221) and then pressing Copy, the "Source Tuning" allows me to select all available micro tunings (Internal, Card and Preset) but then the "Destination" only allows me to select the Internal Tunings, NOT card.

So Question #1 How do I get a single custom micro tuning from internal memory onto DataBlade?

Furthermore...

Ideally the organization that I'd like to have is: each partition will have 2 custom micro tunings along with ONLY specific Voices (patches) that will use those specific tuning. So for instance Partition 1 has custom micro tuning A and B and only the select number of patches I'm interested in having play those scales.

What I would like to avoid is dumping my entire Internal Voice/Multi to the partition, that'll just be sloppy.

Question #2: Is there a way I can save a single voice from internal memory onto a DataBlade partition?

Under Card Utility (Jump #813) my only option is to save ALL Data onto card.

Question #3, with my specific needs- could Sysex messages be the only answer? I see in the "MIDI Data Format" Booklet there are options like 3.1.13 (pg4) "Micro Tuning Data Change" 4.5 (pg 6) "Micro Tuning Data Bulk Dump" and "Table 6" (pg 15) Micro Tuning Bulk Dump" ...but not sure exactly how to implement.

Thanks to anyone who could help me out with this. I really appreciate this forum.

Best
-Weston
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by Sonus » Fri Aug 02, 2019 4:20 pm

Question #1: How do I get a single custom micro tuning from internal memory onto DataBlade?
... You can only save internal memory with two micro tunings to card in utility mode.

Question #2: Is there a way I can save a single voice from internal memory onto a DataBlade partition?
... Select a voice, press copy, select memory card, select bank A~D, select 01~16, Go, Completed!

Question #3: With my specific needs could sysex messages be the only answer?
... Micro tuning bulk dump is processed as internal, regardless of memory type.

I-1: memory type 00, memory number 00
F0 43 00 7A 02 24 4C 4D 20 20 38 31 30 31 4D 54 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

I-2: memory type 00, memory number 01
F0 43 00 7A 02 24 4C 4D 20 20 38 31 30 31 4D 54 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01

Midi Data Format <Table 6> LM__8101MT
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Thu Sep 19, 2019 5:32 pm

Hi Sonus (or anyone else that could help), I'm digging back into this and my question is basically distilled to this: How do I get a customizes tuning from the Internal memory to the Card memory?

When the DataBlade is inserted I see that there are micro tuning options "C-1" and "C-2" but how am I supposed to edit/customize them? I need to find a way to edit a micro scale on the internal memory and then saving that tuning onto the card memory.

Thanks!
-Weston
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Tue Oct 22, 2019 2:14 am

Bump...

Can anyone out there help me with this? I need to find a way to edit a micro scale on the internal memory and then save that tuning onto the card memory. Is there ANYWAY could achieve this? If not, I'm afraid I have no use for my DB :(

It's confusing because the memory cards are advertised for being able to store 2 additional micro tunings but, as far as I can tell, you can only save a Card Scale to the Internal Memory which seems to me to be an obsolete feature. Why would you have two empty Card Tunings that can only be edited once you save them to the Internal memory and then you can't put them back on the card? In the end you are stuck with the limit of just those two Internal scales. Does this all make sense?

Thank you for listening to my issue. If anyone can think of a workaround, it would be a huge breakthrough for me!

Thanks
-Weston
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by jnm2 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:47 am

If I do understand the situation correctly...

To me this make sence :
To edit some data (voice, tuning or whatever) you need some functionality to do so.
That functionality exist inside the TG77. The data itself can exist anywhere in a memory.
It wont be changed (it's like preset data) unless it is loaded into a hardware that can and knows how to manipulate it correctly.
Once edited you can save it again anywhere as a static block of data.
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Tue Oct 22, 2019 3:40 pm

Hello and thanks for your reply. Once it's on the Card memory, I have no problem with it being a static block of data like a preset.

I know how to edit a scale in the internal memory, my question is: how do i then get that edited scale onto the card memory?

I'll walk you through my issue. To edit a Micro Scale press Edit, F2, type the number 11 then press Enter. This should get you to edit screen #221. I then press copy and a screen pops up to select Source Tuning and Destination Tuning. Source Tuning can be Internal, Card or Preset, which is great. The problem is, destination can only be the 2 Internal Scales. But there must be a way to get something from Internal (Source) to Card (Destination).

Any ideas?
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by jnm2 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:09 pm

In the manual's :

Under the 'MIDI Utility Job' there is :
Bulk Dump.
...
04 : Micro tuning : All Internal Micro tuning data.

Then in the 'Card Utility Job' there is :
Save to card :
* Setup data (being => system data, pan data, micro tuning data, program change table data)
* ...

So that should be it I think.
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 pm

Ah okay, I think you found me a work around! Under Card Utility, I can save ALL the memory onto the card, including micro scales.

What I was initially trying to do was copy ONLY the micro scales from Internal to Card.

Just so I'm clear, why did you mention the MIDI utility to send the bulk Micro Scale Dump? As far as I can tell, that just sends a SysEx message out of the TG77 to be stored on a Librarian. Is there any way to direct that onto the card?

For my purposes, it would be a little cleaner if there were a way to only get the micro scales onto the card and not have to copy the entire TG77 memory.

However, if this is the only option I can make due.

Thanks!
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by jnm2 » Tue Oct 22, 2019 6:52 pm

It is not all the TG77 data !
Read the manual, then you'll see what is excluded and included.
I don't have the TG77 in use.
The bulk dumps can be a solution if computer-use is not an obstacle.
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by EricaEsoMusic » Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:51 pm

Computer shouldn't be an obstacle for me. I already have the scales saved as a SysEx. But sending them back out of the computer would just enter the Internal memory automatically, right? How would I direct the SysEx file just to the card?
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Re: TG77 DataBlade and Microtonality

Unread post by Miks » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:01 pm

EricaEsoMusic wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 7:51 pm
How would I direct the SysEx file just to the card?
That's not possible on a TG77 afaik. SysEx data DO land straight in the internal memory (or edit buffer) first and then have to be saved to the internal memory or a card.
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