SY77 booting in a loop

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

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Rara
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SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:23 am

Hello,
I am wondering if anyone has come across this before ...
SY77 boots in a loop, it was fine last time i used it.
after the initial boot screen, the screen flickers with what is shown below
IMG_0010a.jpg
And then it shows the next screen below ...
IMG_0009a.jpg
it then it boots again showing the same screens, in a never ending loop.

Any suggestions?
Tia
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
Rara
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:01 pm

Below is a video of it.

First I replaced the battery.
I did briefly get it working by pressing voice repeatedly until it stopped
then did a factory reset.
This time I am unable to stop the loop to try a reset again.

during the boot loop, all of the button lights on the right hand side
lit up except for number 3 (i think t was)

Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Saul » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:10 pm

Have you checked all the connections inside? Perhaps a dry solder joint, loose cable, dodgy capacitor?

When was the last time you fired up the SY77 and it was working fine?
Saul
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:22 pm

Last week or two I was playing away quite happily.

I'll give all the cable connections inside a look over,
I forgot to mention I did a diagnostic check and the ram and rom(s) showed OK on the screen

I had a horrible thought briefly that the logic controller maybe dying,
it is an after-market chip, after the original had died from a nasty Chinese (cool blue) LCD failed
which fried that controller. (newhaven was unavailable at the time).
I hope it isnt, it was a difficult chip to find. Put in by my tech guy.
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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parametric
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by parametric » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:47 pm

Good pointers from Saul there . . . . .

The SY77 is getting to the age where things start to go bad . . . Caps especially.

Open the 77 and closely examine the pcb and see if you can see any discharge from any of the caps.

Unsolder the caps, clean the goo off and replace the caps - and see if the problem has gone.

Caps are a double-edged problem. The value changes - (or it stops BEING a capacitor altogether) - AND - the Goo corrodes the pcb tracks. THAT can usually be fixed by careful use of "strapping wires" soldered either side of the "problem" . . .

Unplug and Re-Plug various ribbon cables. In SOME cases, where the plugs on both ends are IDENTICAL, the whole ribbon can be advantageously reversed - thus presenting fresh "Land" to the contacts . . . (IYSWIM).

Another thing to try is to Power-up the SY OPEN (Careful!), and with access to the pcb(s) - and able to see the display . . . .

Obviously - if the SY77 has an internal PSU - DON'T put your fingers near the PSU with the Power ON 8)

Your "Loop" behaviour should start. Then, with a WOODEN or plastic "probe" (I use a wooden chop-stick), gently PRESS (and hold) the components on the pcb, the chips etc - and watch to see if the looping STOPS at any point - allowing the boot to proceed . . .

If this occurs, then "the last point you pressed" may well be the location of a fault such as a bad soldered joint:

solderfractures.jpg
solderfractures.jpg (37.35 KiB) Viewed 1342 times
They can look like this . . . . .(above)

Simply re-melting with a soldering Iron usually fixes this - or you may prefer to remove the old solder and re-solder with NEW solder.

DOING these things Should have disturbed whatever is causing the looping - and (hopefully) might "fix" it . . . . . :wink:

ATB

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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Jokeyman123 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:14 pm

What strikes me strange is the startup warning screen-oops let's try whatever it said-I have never seen an SY77 show a startup screen like the one I see here. Individual users can create specific messages for their disks when you use something downloaded off the Internet, or from abranded disk such as Sound Source or others. Are you booting up with a floppy disk in the drive? If you are, try a different disk. I do not know of any SY77 that has any kind of warning screen if something is electronically wrong, and I've had plenty things electronically wrong with my sy77s! Correct me if I'm wrong, but this kind of screen at bootup must have been created by somebody's user files when you installed sounds, multis or anything else from either a sysex file or a floppy disk, or even if you had a particular floppy disk in the SY77 when you started it. I'm wondering-if it isn't a bad component or solder joint-could the SY77 operating system get corrupted from a virus??? I've never known of any, but he screen looks unusual at least to me.
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:34 pm

Thanks for the tips,

yes this one is getting on a bit, 30 years old next year.

I am limited in what I can do now, I don't have the space to dismantle this anymore.
I can check both the main boards for the joints, caps and cables.
after that, I'll pass it on to the technician i use. (who is going to either love me or hate me
when I dump both my CZ's, FZ and mkb-200 on him as well :) ) I wont know for a while whats wrong
with it as he can be quite busy.

A bit more testing finds the buttons 3 14 and 16 are a tad dodgy or unresponsive,
I pressed each of those during startup and the sy77 logo froze.
turning the rotary knob made the screen turn into scrolling jibberish.
and the the song LED turned yellow. quite a mess.
Random and unpredictable.
I have never seen an SY77 show a startup screen like the one
This warning screen surprised me to, I have never seen it before, I've owned this sy77 since 2011.
I've loaded all sorts of patches download from the internet and never had a problem with any of them.
I never saw this before until a few hours ago.
I did by the himalaya patch set and never experienced this screen with them.

there was no disk in the drive, I did manage to factory reset it and it still showed that screen
afterwards, until i got it to boot by pressing voice repeatedly. after that back to boot loops.

Thanks
Rara.
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Jokeyman123 » Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:45 pm

You are welcome. After reading your second description, could be a minor loose cable-there are many boards and cables in the SY. Best left to your tech-you are lucky you have one-around here-there nearest is about 100 miles away and haven't had much luck with their troubleshooting abilities! Good luck, it is still a very unique-sounding and powerful music machine. I covered many music productions with just my one SY77 over the years, with arrangements I created for entire shows (and a huge sound system of course!)
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:59 am

If i think about it logically, its a computer,
what happens when a computer fails a POST because of a hardware
failure? it tries to post and boot again.

It looks like it's going to have all it's front panel switches replaced anyway.

Maybe that screen above is something yamaha did in the even of a failed post?
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by purcell » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:13 am

If all fails...how about a "NEW" one?

SY 77 from 200 - 400 €!

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-yamaha-sy77/k0
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:03 am

Thanks for the suggestion, that would be a rather expensive option converted to Australian $'s
$320 to $640 + $200 shipping + Tax + Parcel tax (if they bring it in after July = up to $1300 (815eur) = Ouch :-)

Thanks for showing me that link, i bookmarked it, there's things on there you don't see on the conventional Ebay sites :-D yay ...

Cheers.
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Derek » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:06 am

Hi,

Strange, I have never seen a screen like that in 10 years of SY/TG ownership, and I've never seen or heard mention of it. It vaguely reminds me of those old "Guru Meditation Errors" you used to get on the Commodore Amiga! :)

As mentioned above, a good poke about the gizzards is order, looking for loose/tarnished connectors (including any socketed chips), bad solder joints and bad caps. I would also measure the power rails going to the boards to check they are smooth (best done with an oscilloscope, as a multi meter will just give you an average measure.

Following that it would be looking for another SY for spares or repair.

Good luck!
Regards
Derek Cook

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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by shadowmask » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:09 am

The "Sorry ! Let's see that opening screen once more." text is encoded into one of the ROMs (IC124) so it appears to be a genuine Yamaha message.

Brian
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by Rara » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:30 am

Strange, I have never seen a screen like that in 10 years of SY/TG ownership
It was an unexpected surprise to see this screen.
I've got myself a can of electrical contact cleaner today, so when i check everything i'll clean it.
after that, as i said, my technician can have it for a while.
.....so it appears to be a genuine Yamaha message.
Thanks for that :-)

while I am here, where is the Logic controller located on the main board?

Thanks
Rara.
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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Re: SY77 booting in a loop

Unread post by purcell » Wed Apr 04, 2018 1:50 pm

Hello Rara!
You should not buy this on ebay in germany! Then with horrendous shipping costs
It was only a demo to show the prices for the SY77. I'm sure at "ebay australia" they will be similar!
I was interested in how much a SY 77 is worth today. 200-500 €!
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