Import SYSEX to TG77

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

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edgerton
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Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by edgerton » Thu Aug 09, 2018 11:26 pm

Hi all,

I have a TG55. I know, wrong group, right? Hang on!

I have some patches on there I'd hate to lose if I sold it so my question is can the TG77 import SYSEX from patches from a TG55? Does the TG77 have all the AWM2 waveforms that the TG55 does?
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by Saul » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:11 am

Hi edgerton, welcome to yamahamusicians.com :)

Interesting question. On the face of it you would think this is pretty straightforward because they both have AWM2 but I am not sure it's that easy. You might get the sysex dat in but what about the samples that use that data? There is no sample import on the TG77 except by card.

I don't know enough about it to say for sure of course but we have members of the forum who know a lot about the TG77/SY77 and will be able to give you a more definitive answer. Hang in there, someone will be along soon :)
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by Jokeyman123 » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:28 pm

Here is what I have experienced. I've purchased TG/SY55 drum cards, these are in pairs. Sound cards for other sounds are the same. One is for the actual samples that make up sounds for the TG55, the other maps the sample into a distinct sound or drum kit. The samples can be imported into the SY77/TG77 and are useable, and then I can save the new modified drum kit into the SY77. However, the data card that matches the sample with a full program will not work-the actual sound programs are apparently not compatible. The structures that make up a sound program for the 77 vs. 55 series must be different. the SY77 looks for 4 separate sound program structures-2 AWM and 2 AFM. The 55 creates sounds only with AWM, so the basic structure for creating a sound is different. And I'm not sure-but most keyboards have "identifiers"-code that distinguishes one instrument from another-and when sending sysex, the software usually needs to read that identifier first before it accepts any additional code. This is so that no erroneous or non-compatible code gets into your keyboard which could crash or corrupt data that is already in it. the gentleman here who created the SY77 editing program could tell you more specifically about this, could probably be more helpful than me. but no, I don't think you could successfully send any meaningful sysex data intended for the 55 into the 77. I don't think it could do any damage, but I wouldn't try it unless I'm sure.
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by Derek » Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:15 pm

Hi,

Jokeyman provides some good info, but I would clarify that the SYSEX dumps of an SY77 vary in size depending on how many elements are active. I.e a 1 element AWM voice only has the data for one element and it scales for two or four element AWM voices.

As he says, the SYSEX identifiers will be different which means that the TG77 probably will not recognise the TG55 dumps.

As to how close the AWM element data is, I do not know, but the fact that the cards are compatible is a sign that it might be.

What you could do is get the manuals for both (they will be on Yamaha Manual library) and compare the dumps. If they are close it may be possible to update my sy.factory to do a manual import. I don't hav time to look at present, so if you could do the homework and check the SYSYEX dumps for similarity then that would be a help.
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by edgerton » Sat Aug 11, 2018 4:08 am

Thanks, all. To be clear, I'm working only with the internal AWM waveforms in the TG-55. No cards so if the TG77 doesn't have the same waveform in it than I know for sure I'm out of luck. Guess this will be a fun experiment.
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by Derek » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:32 am

Hi,

You should be able to check the waveform lists in the manuals for equivalence.

We were only discussing the cards due to the fact that the cards appear to work across the devices, which implies that the AWM between the two devices should be the same or at least similar. :)
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by edgerton » Mon Aug 13, 2018 2:58 pm

Well a quick stare and compare found that just about all the waveforms match between the two. Major areas of deviation were electric piano (TG55 has 7; not quite sure how that maps to the TG77 waveforms for EP) and organ (no direct name correlations the way everything else matches up). This actually might be quite doable. First step I think would to be to build a table that maps the waveform #s back and forth between the two so that you could actually think about building a tool to convert the presets waveforms of the TG55 to the correct waveform preset # on the TG77. That would require setting up some raw patches on both and playing the two side-by-side to make sure they all match up. Hopefully the TG55 is the exact same sample as the TG77 when it comes to waveforms like "Shamisen". If there are some big differences between the two then that would potentially explain why no one has taken this on before.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I don't think I'll have time soon to do this comparison; probably this fall or winter.
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Re: Import SYSEX to TG77

Unread post by Derek » Mon Aug 13, 2018 8:32 pm

Sounds like a slow burn task.... :)

I've done similar mapping between synths before. It can be quite satisfying.
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