SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Yamaha SY77 is a 16 voice multitimbral music workstation first produced by Yamaha Corporation in 1989. The SY77 is a synthesizer whose architecture combines AFM (Advanced Frequency Modulation) synthesis, AWM2 (Advanced Wave Memory 2) for ROM-borne sample-based synthesis, and the combination of these two methods christened Realtime Convolution and Modulation Synthesis (RCM).

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PirelliTnz
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SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by PirelliTnz »

¡Hello! So i'm brand new to the site and i want to share the project i'm working on and some issues that hopefully you guys can help me figure out.

-My dad has a SY77 and wrote a bunch of songs in the 90s. All the songs stored in disks, so my mission is to finally take this information on to Pro tools so i can add some drums and guitar properly.

-I stumbled with a few issues on the way. The disk drive belt was broken so i replaced it with a USB and it is now done and installed.
-I changed the battery as well to a new one.

My main issue is the SY77 ENTER button. it simply won't work, it is i believe the only button not working so it is very frustrating, i already changed the button but it still won't work.

This prevents me from finishing the job since i cannot select any song to load or even look at midi channels.

-I downloaded and payed the SY.Factory and also through midi connected the piano. I only have 1 cable so i tried to get it to the MIDI IN and loaded the songs in the software, however the midi connection reads " "MIDI Interface time out.
A message was sent to the SY on the selected midi output port.
Either the response was not received on the selected midi input port.
or a response was received but the sy.factory and SY 'SYSEX Device Number' settings do not match."

I cannot move past this, since i cannot check the midi channels in the SY77 due to the lack of ENTER function in the keyboard.

¿Any recommendations? could this issue be simply because i need to connect the out and in cables? or is there no way to send an ENTER signal to the SY77.

Also, maybe there is a way to export the songs to another format directly from the sy. factory.

hope there is any help!


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Rara
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by Rara »

Hello and welcome to the forums :-)
PirelliTnz wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:14 am My main issue is the SY77 ENTER button. it simply won't work, it is i believe the only button not working so it is very frustrating, i already changed the button but it still won't work.
Did you change only the button or the tact switch underneath the button?
PirelliTnz wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 3:14 am A message was sent to the SY on the selected midi output port.
Either the response was not received on the selected midi input port.
or a response was received but the sy.factory and SY 'SYSEX Device Number' settings do not match."
Your SY factory is waiting for a response from the SY77.
midi ports are one way communications, so you will need a midi cable to go from SY77 midi out to PC midi in.
You wont be able to get far without the enter button working properly.

while i am here, Midi setting for SY77
[utility] - [f2] - channel set [enter]
basic settings, set voice receive to channel 1, device ID to 1, bulk protect off (if sending voice dumps)
settings in PC to match the above.

sy77 settings.JPG
Hope this helps

Rara 0-)
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jnm2
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by jnm2 »

Hi,

For the SY99 this is the remote sysex command for the ENTER BUTTON.
Sysex Data F0 43 10 34 0D 00 00 24 00 40 F7 Enter
Maybe it is the same for the SY77, else search for it in the manual.

Here you find a free tool that can be used :
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=14544


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Rara
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by Rara »

jnm2 wrote: Wed May 27, 2020 8:04 am Sysex Data F0 43 10 34 0D 00 00 24 00 40 F7 Enter
Maybe it is the same for the SY77, else search for it in the manual.
I completely forgot about things like this :oops:

Rara 0-)


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Derek
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by Derek »

Hello and welcome.

As Rara has already pointed out, you need two way coms for sy.factory to interrogate the synth as first sends a message to the synth (during testing or when requesting a voice from memory, for example) and then expects a response from the synth. So if it does not get one within a certain time then it will time out - so this is expected behaviour.

So, you need two MIDI leads, and don’t forget to wire as a cross over - IN to OUT and OUT to IN on both the interface and SY respectively.

With a single MIDI lead from interface out to SY in you could try opening an SY data file in sy.factory and sending a voice to the edit buffer to see if it works in that manner. That is only a one way push from sy.factory to the SY - it does not need two way comms.

Whether or not it is received depends on the SYSEX device number the SY is set to. If it is set to ALL it will be received from any device number (so the sy.factory DEVICE setting does not matter). If it is not set to ALL, then it will be set between 1-16. If you cannot see what the setting is, then step the sy.factory DEVICE number from 1-16 and try exporting a voice to the edit buffer until it is received (you will see the SY go into edit mode).

Regarding sequence data. Whilst sy.factory can receive SY Sequencer data and store it, it does not convert it. It is something I personally don’t need (and I tend to write the librarians to fit my needs first :) ) as I never use a Workstation Sequencer. All of my song writing is done in Cubase. I did have a quick look at what would be needed to convert to MIDI and it would be quite a lot of work for little user demand. Having said that several people have been asking for it recently, so I may reconsider it - but I am very busy right now, so could not make any guarantees about if and when I could do this. Another option may be to set up an open source software project to do a KNN file to MIDI conversion if other developers are interested In helping. I would donate my Java code for reading/writing KNN files and my knowledge of the file format.

If you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

PS: I saw your email come in late last night, but as the questions have also been posted here, I decided to reply here first. I’ll also drop you an email reply in slower time when I have a few minutes.


Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by PirelliTnz »

Thank you guys for the response! i will try all the recommendations this week and post any updates!


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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by PirelliTnz »

Hi Guys!

so im back after testing several options.

1) I successfully managed to get Midi versions of the songs by sending the sequence from sy.factory to the SY through MIDI and them playing it back recording the midi sequence in Mac garageband.

this felt like a miracle due to not having an enter key in the SY.

2) I have a new issue. The .T file i used for this was one i downloaded for testing. now im appearing to have a usual problem i see in the forums.
I cannot pass the SY77 disks to the mac.

I bought a USB external floppy drive, however, mac won't read the disks nor a windows xp emulator i downloaded.

After reading extensively about this in other threads it seems some don't have this issue but all the disks i have are originally formated in the SY77.

i cannot load the disks from the sy since (no enter button) and i already replaced the drive with an usb emulator.

so im wondering if anybody found out how to make this transfer from floppy to computer successfully.

any software or suggestions?


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DrSynth
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by DrSynth »

PirelliTnz wrote: Sun May 31, 2020 10:43 pm Hi Guys!

so im back after testing several options.

1) I successfully managed to get Midi versions of the songs by sending the sequence from sy.factory to the SY through MIDI and them playing it back recording the midi sequence in Mac garageband.

this felt like a miracle due to not having an enter key in the SY.

2) I have a new issue. The .T file i used for this was one i downloaded for testing. now im appearing to have a usual problem i see in the forums.
I cannot pass the SY77 disks to the mac.

I bought a USB external floppy drive, however, mac won't read the disks nor a windows xp emulator i downloaded.

After reading extensively about this in other threads it seems some don't have this issue but all the disks i have are originally formated in the SY77.

i cannot load the disks from the sy since (no enter button) and i already replaced the drive with an usb emulator.

so im wondering if anybody found out how to make this transfer from floppy to computer successfully.

any software or suggestions?
The issue is current USB external floppy drives only read HD disks, not DD disks. You have to use a "vintage" USB floppy drive from the original iMac era to read DD disks. I've used one of these for DX7II & SY99 disks on OSX from Panther thru Mojave:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/SMARTDISK-VST- ... Sw08FexByl

There's quite a few available on eBay, search for FDUSB-M. It has to be the "M" version IIRC for the reading of the DD disks -- there's a later VST model without the "M" that you should avoid.

Note - Mac (OSX) can only read DD disks, it can't write DD disks

Manny


FM Rig of DOOM!! Yamaha: Montage 7, SY99's x9, TG77's x4, Reface DX, FS1r, DX200, DX7II FD E!, DX7II FD, TX802
Yamaha VL1v2, VL70m, AN200, AN1X, EX5R, Motif-Rack ES w/PLG150-VL x2
Kurzweil K2000, Korg Wavestation EX, Kawai K1, Sequential Pro One, Arp Odyssey, Hydrasynth!
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by PirelliTnz »

Hi Guys!

si im updating my progress here.

-I found a 2nd hand SY77 and removed the board with the ENTER KEY, now it works!
- My next task is to copy all the FLOPPY's to my computer and have them there.

I im stumbling with some songs that show a i.b.h. Timeout on MIDI Interface error. This only happens when i import at SY FActory some songs. Not all of them.

Bulk is set to off . and also Transmit Buffer size 2,048.


Some songs transfer without issue, however im imagining heavier size sequences will have this error. is there any workaround?

-I cannot get any computer to read the disks directly. I even bought the suggested external mac floppy drive without success. Only the Yamaha SY77 drive reads the disks.

so i thought transmitting the files could work.


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Rara
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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by Rara »

What have you got planned for the donor synth?

Rara 0-)


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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by PirelliTnz »

Donor synth, shows the LCD with a ERROR once it turns on... everything seems fine except main mother board and the floppy drive.

if you need any particular parts let me know haha


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Re: SY77 ENTER button - MIDI

Unread post by Derek »

PirelliTnz wrote: Mon Sep 14, 2020 6:15 pm Hi Guys!

I im stumbling with some songs that show a i.b.h. Timeout on MIDI Interface error. This only happens when i import at SY FActory some songs. Not all of them.

Bulk is set to off . and also Transmit Buffer size 2,048.


Some songs transfer without issue, however im imagining heavier size sequences will have this error. is there any workaround?
Hi, what is your sequencer timeout setting in sy.factory? Have you tried increasing it?

Also, what MIDI interface are you using, and are you confident that it has the buffer capability to handle very large SYSEX dumps? This is very hard to verify, as is whether or not it is an sy.factory problem or general system problem (e.g there are observed MIDI issues in Windows Vista and above where active sensing and large SYSEX is not tolerated at the same time by Windows).

The transmit buffer is not relevant for data coming from the SY?

You could try using a utility like SNOIZE sysex librarian to see if it can capture the data without error.


Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
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