SY85 Factory sounds question

The Yamaha SY85 is a digital music workstation introduced in 1992. Unlike other Yamaha synthesizers of the time (SY77 and the SY99) the SY85 does not use FM synthesis. Instead, its sounds are based on samples, which can be layered and modified to create new sounds.

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Rara
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by Rara » Wed Nov 21, 2018 11:05 am

mcbain23 wrote:
Tue Nov 20, 2018 6:23 pm
ahh thanks for the quick responses guys but I should have said, the previous owner informed me that the disk drive is kaput!

Can see there is a thread here on drive repair, I guess that's my next course of action?

> Update; I'm answering my own question here, I definitely want to get the disk drive sorted.

Question then becomes.. try to repair, or just replace for a working drive?
My drive wasn't working merely a worn belt otherwise ok, I replaced mine with a panasonic PC floppy drive (direct drive) with appropriate adapter to suit and it works flawlessly. A seller on ebay has them ready made. Almost plug'n'play, there is a link to ebay in this forum somewhere i think in a drive adapter thread. all is needed is a few holes drilled into the back of the drive holder to allow the cables through.

Rara 0-)
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by SY85stresser » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:38 pm

I know this is an old thread however I just replaced the drive belt in my Sy85, and it sounds good when I run my factory reset disk. However before I was getting "DISK NOT READY" and now I'm getting "DISK UNFORMATTED", Could someone tell me what this means? I've certainly fixed my drive belt problem but now I'm beginning to think that my disk is messed up.
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by Saul » Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:48 pm

Hi Sy85stresser, welcome to yamahamusicians.com :) No thread is too old to post in on this site and the SY drive belt issue is a pretty constant theme over the years.

So, is the belt you replaced a genuine SY85 belt? by that I mean it was definitely meant for the SY85 and not a generic floppy drive belt?

The SY85 pretty much like all keyboards from that period has a floppy drive that is very speed sensitive. So if the belt is just slightly too tight or too loose you may see the sort of error you have now encountered. Can you confirm which drive belt you have?
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by Rara » Tue Nov 27, 2018 5:19 am

SY85stresser wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 10:38 pm
I know this is an old thread however I just replaced the drive belt in my Sy85, and it sounds good when I run my factory reset disk. However before I was getting "DISK NOT READY" and now I'm getting "DISK UNFORMATTED", Could someone tell me what this means? I've certainly fixed my drive belt problem but now I'm beginning to think that my disk is messed up.
Quite possible a faulty disk. It could also be dirty heads in the floppy drive (head cleaners can be found online still fairly cheap)

when you format disks for SY, format them in the synth. I am guessing there is a small chunk of data written to the disk
by the synth to identify it as a yamaha disk. Other wise if you try to load or save from a disk formatted in a PC,
the Synth will ignore it showing disk unformatted.

Rara 0-)
Yamaha: SY35, SY77, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, D110, MC307, MKB200 (x2)
Kawai: XD5 / Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: CZ1000, CZ5000, FZ-1 / E-MU: ESI 2000
Digitech studio 400 / Alesis SR-16 / Boss: Dr550mk2, SE-70
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1 / Studiomaster Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1
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parametric
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by parametric » Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:36 pm

Good advice there from Rara . . . . (Y)

These problems have dogged users of older Synths FOR EVER . . . .

Floppy Disk are virtually extinct from the mainstream and we tend to forget that "In the beginning"

they were ALL DSDD - i.e 720k (if you were on a PC) - Mac IIRC described them as 800k . . . ?

As a result, most early boards, including the SY85 were fitted with DD Drives . . . .

For whatever reason, (probably financial) Yamaha have never been (IMO) early-adopters of new technology,

so it took a while for HD floppy drives to appear in their Boards.

I believe the EX5 has one . . .

Simply using your Synth alone with floppy disks is usually no problem at all, but as most of us also have computers,

why would we NOT wish to build Libraries of Sounds to use?

The inclusion of the PC in the loop is the cause of problems, simply because Computers swiftly adopted

HD Drives universally . . .

They LOOK the same . . . ?

Yes indeed, but this is where the problem lies . . . . .

Check this OLD post of mine, where I attempted to explain the issue . . . .

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6324&hilit=Floppy+ ... =15#p32435

Once you understand the problem . . . ALL should be clear . . . . .

I can't stress enough the importance of cleaning the heads of the Drive.

You may as well see to it WHILE you are changing the belt . . . :roll:

You can then do it thoroughly with a cotton-bud and IPA. . . or if already reassembled - with one of these:

floppy disk cleaner kit.jpg
floppy disk cleaner kit.jpg (13.58 KiB) Viewed 125 times

If your Board was a second-user item, then in all likely-hood, the Heads have NEVER been cleaned . . . .

That done, ALL should be well . . . . ((i))

As a postscript - Disks can (and DO) wear out and "go bad" - for a variety of reasons.

Quality can vary from brand to brand and batch to batch, due to manufacturing tolerances . . . .

Back in the Day - Substandard stock used to be cleared by the Majors and sold cheap as

"White Label" Disks at computer Fairs . . . although CHEAP, you could expect find "Duff" disks among them . . . .

The other "snare" is that of using HD Disks, by taping-over the extra hole in the cover . . . .

This is a common trap, simply because HD Disks are what you TEND to have handfuls of, lying around,

and (superficially) they look the same. :roll:

Results WILL be variable.

Due to the higher coerscivity of the Media itself, a DD Drive does not have enough GRUNT to write successfully to it.

So FORMATTING them first in the Synth will likely NOT be successful

Annoyingly, you'll often be told that the Write HAS been successful . . . .

You will only find out that it WASN'T when you come to read it back. :x

So (mostly) BEWARE . . . . . . 8)

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by SY85stresser » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 am

Thanks a lot guys. You are truly a great help. Here's my story, I cleaned the heads with alcohol and q tip and replaced the Drive belt with a belt from Syntaur.. Now after that was finished, I formatted my old disk successfully to see if my drive was functional. Okay, so drive is functional. I then contacted seller and asked for a new disk, which he sent graciously. He said he had tested the disk and it in fact does work. I loaded it in and got the dreaded "Disk unformatted". Now I'm truly lost. I cleaned readers, replaced belt, tested drive. I can't keep going around in circles buying random parts online, waiting for shipping, then getting zero closure.

Very frustrating... If anyone can help me with MIDI Data dumps that would be greatly appreciated. I've tried using other forums troubleshoots with no success, but now that I have you guys as helping hands hopefully you can help me get this sorted. I have a Sysex librarian and C6 programs on a MAC OSX laptop. MIO I/O cable (Not the cheapo) and my SY85 is V1.20. OCT 1992. Jesus if someone could help me get my voices to this thing it will finish a multi-month long battle. Thanks guys
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by SY85stresser » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:47 am

Hey saul, still getting used to how to work this forum.... Here is the drive belt that I ordered.


https://syntaur.com/Items.php?Item=3280
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by parametric » Wed Dec 05, 2018 3:08 am

SY85stresser wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:42 am
Thanks a lot guys. You are truly a great help. Here's my story, I cleaned the heads with alcohol and q tip and replaced the Drive belt with a belt from Syntaur.. Now after that was finished, I formatted my old disk successfully to see if my drive was functional. Okay, so drive is functional. I then contacted seller and asked for a new disk, which he sent graciously. He said he had tested the disk and it in fact does work. I loaded it in and got the dreaded "Disk unformatted". Now I'm truly lost. I cleaned readers, replaced belt, tested drive. I can't keep going around in circles buying random parts online, waiting for shipping, then getting zero closure.
I've kinda lost where we are at with this thread . . . . :confusion-confused:

When you asked the "seller" for a new disk, was this just a blank NEW disk? - or the Factory_Set?

If just a NEW Disk - did you remember to format it in your (repaired) Drive, first?

Was it a proper DSDD 720k disk (ONE Hole) or a DSHD 1.4Mb disk (TWO Holes)

Even taping over the second hole of an HD Disk, it's doubtful the SY's drive has enough GRUNT to

format HD Media reliably

DD Media is now getting "old" so duff disks can increasingly be expected, I guess:roll:

Try and buy a quantity of them in your country . . . .

I have hundreds of them - I bought a whole lot some years ago. (there's a link in my footer)

I understand them to be TDK Bulk Stock . . They are NEW, but old stock now . . No labels or boxes . . . .

They are £1 each, but I have no idea what shipping would be to your country?

ATB

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by SY85stresser » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:03 pm

Hey parametric,

The seller sent me a FACTORY_SET disk that had been formatted on a keyboard. However it is an HD disk, Looks like this

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-d69zhTHunAQ/ ... 2Bdisk.jpg

In terms of shipping, I live in Boulder Colorado, USA. I could be interested
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Re: SY85 Factory sounds question

Unread post by parametric » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:41 pm

Results with HD Disks tend to be variable for reasons I described in my previous posts.

Best you can hope is to copy the files to a PC and then write them back to a DSDD disk

that you have formatted in the Sy85 . . .

As you are in the US - it would be best to check here: http://www.athana.com/html/diskette.html

They wouldn't ship to the UK when I was looking - so I managed to purchase remaining stock from a business

that was closing down over here . . .

Let us know how it goes . . .

ATB

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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