Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

The Yamaha SY85 is a digital music workstation introduced in 1992. Unlike other Yamaha synthesizers of the time (SY77 and the SY99) the SY85 does not use FM synthesis. Instead, its sounds are based on samples, which can be layered and modified to create new sounds.

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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Mon Oct 21, 2019 12:29 pm

Hello,

please excuse me if I raise the issue of Yamaha disc format again:
Can I theoretically load disks (or files), created with v1.10, into a SY85 with v1.20?
Were there any researches and new results in the meantime?

Can I load the files ('SY85 Sound Disk Collection - 60+ Disk Images')
from Brian's site for the v1.20?
https://www.sector101.co.uk/downloads.html

I can't try it right now. My SY is with the technician. I have a SY85 with the v1.20, but the floppy doesn't work. Probably the floppy controller also has a damage.
The repair seems to be difficult, although the man has excellent knowledge.

Currently there is another SY85 with v1.20 on offer. The seller just has to assure me that floppy disks will load.

I would be very happy about your help.
Alesis Fusion 6HD - Waldorf Blofeld - Oberheim OB-12 - Kurzweil PC3K8 - E_MU Vintage Keys Plus,
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by parametric » Mon Oct 21, 2019 2:55 pm

Hi Paul . . .

maybe you've already read this earlier post in this thread?

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=7152&p=83492#p35124

it seems there is a bug in FW 1.10, so it will only load sysex CREATED on a 1.10 FW . . . . ?

Another post from Brian states that there is 1 byte missing from each patch in the 1.10 sysex file. . . .

I know not if anyone has tried "fiddling" with this? :wink:

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm

Hi Chris,

the link leeds to this thread :|
But: yes, I have read other posts.

What I don't understand:
do the bug problems only occur with sysex files? Loading from floppy disks is not affected?
and
can I load all sysex files into a SY85 v1.20?
No matter with which firmware saved before?
Alesis Fusion 6HD - Waldorf Blofeld - Oberheim OB-12 - Kurzweil PC3K8 - E_MU Vintage Keys Plus,
Ensoniq SQ-R, M-Audio Venom, Peavey Spectrum Synth, Yamaha CS1x, SY85, TG500
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by parametric » Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:31 pm

Hi Paul,

I'm rather unclear about that. After I added the von-vol RAM, I loaded up the ProPiano set and pretty much stayed with it.

If you look at the "SY85 Factory Settings Disk & Demonstration Disk:" section here: https://www.sector101.co.uk/downloads.html

it re-iterates the FW thing and also makes a point about different sets for Non-Vol RAM equipped 85s . . . .

I guess someone needs to try . . . . :confusion-confused: My SY (FW 1.20) is in storage ATM, so I can't . . . . .

Chris
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Mon Oct 21, 2019 5:31 pm

Thanks again.
I guess nobody will try if after such along time - exept me ...
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by Miks » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:49 pm

I would gladly test it - but I have a TG500 instead of a SY85... :whistle:
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
Kawai: K1 II
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Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500,
TX-802, YMM2
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:58 pm

Hi Miks,

Thank you for your good will.
I think earlier or later I will have the chance.
Alesis Fusion 6HD - Waldorf Blofeld - Oberheim OB-12 - Kurzweil PC3K8 - E_MU Vintage Keys Plus,
Ensoniq SQ-R, M-Audio Venom, Peavey Spectrum Synth, Yamaha CS1x, SY85, TG500
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by parametric » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:02 am

Paul . . .

what is the problem with the floppy drive . . . . is it the "Disk not ready" error ?

If the drive is original - they generally respond to a new belt, first cleaning the wheels the belt runs on with IPA.

Also, clean the HEAD with one of these:

floppy cleaner.JPG
floppy cleaner.JPG (13.7 KiB) Viewed 248 times
In all likelyhood, if it's a second-user board - the head has never been cleaned . . . .

My SY85 responded well to this . . .

. . . . just a thought . . . . . :confusion-confused:

My Sy85 was FW 1.10 when I first had it . . . I asked Yamaha about the possibility of a chip upgrade, but was advised against it

due to the difficulty of sourcing the required chips - AND the difficulty of actually doing the job.

I was advised to look for a FW 1.20 board from a spares or repair SY . . . .

I managed to buy a board on ebay with FW 1.20 on it . . . .

NOW - IIRC - I more than likely reinstalled the Factory set from the Yamaha Disks I got WITH the SY85 . . . .

. . . . . which would have been for the 1.10 FW - right? I DON'T remember any issues doing that from the floppy drive. :dance:

SO - if you were to export that via Sysex - then you would HAVE a systex file of the Factory Set SUITABLE for loading into FW 1.20?

NOW - try with another Yamaha disk from the collection and see if there appears to be any difficulty?

If what I'm thinking is true (i.e there IS no problem), then you have a way to generate FW 1.20-correct sysex files for later use . . . :dance:

maybe it's true . . . . . Lets hope so . . . ((i))

Chris
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 am

Hi Chris,

thanks again for your effort.

My SY has v1.20.
I changed the belt. But that doesn't help.
We also tried a Lotharek floppy emulator + adapter without success.(it's on the positiv list of HxC - so, it should work)
I sent it to a technican.
He already replaces the controller chip for the floppy,
but it still doesn't work.
I hope very much that he finally can repair it.

I'm thinking about to get another SY85.
There's an offer for 230€.
I told the guy that he has to check if the floppy loads disks.
He tried, but first attempts didn't work.
I will not buy it if he can't give the guarantee that the floppy is working.
Alesis Fusion 6HD - Waldorf Blofeld - Oberheim OB-12 - Kurzweil PC3K8 - E_MU Vintage Keys Plus,
Ensoniq SQ-R, M-Audio Venom, Peavey Spectrum Synth, Yamaha CS1x, SY85, TG500
Roland JV-1080, U-220, JD-XA, D-50, JP-8000
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by parametric » Thu Oct 24, 2019 12:31 am

When the belt fails on these drives - Two things can happen . . .

The Belt stretches - and therefore slips . . . .

The Belt perishes and becomes sticky . . . .

Usually it's a combination of BOTH . . . :roll:

These drives are incredibly sensitive to SPEED, so anything that causes variance in speed will cause the error . . .

If the belt is incorrect for the drive, ESPECIALLY too-big, it will slip.

Too tight can also be a problem as it increases the WORK the motor does - which can also alter the correct speed - so will give an error.

If the belt path has become sticky, it is vital to remove ALL the residue before the new belt is fitted . . .

IPA is good for this as it doesn't dissolve most plastics - but is very effective in the important other ways . . . .

I sourced my belts from here: http://www.bustedgear.com/part_belt_floppy.html And they worked perfectly . . . .

Chris
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Thu Oct 24, 2019 5:04 am

I'll sent this to my technican.
But I think he already knows it.
He's a clever guy and I hope very much that he will fix it.
Cheers
Ralf
Alesis Fusion 6HD - Waldorf Blofeld - Oberheim OB-12 - Kurzweil PC3K8 - E_MU Vintage Keys Plus,
Ensoniq SQ-R, M-Audio Venom, Peavey Spectrum Synth, Yamaha CS1x, SY85, TG500
Roland JV-1080, U-220, JD-XA, D-50, JP-8000
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by PaulMueck » Thu Oct 24, 2019 1:07 pm

The reply from the technican:
The drive doesn't come that far because its Drive Select is taken back every millisecond.

Whatever that means ... , he checked it.
Alesis Fusion 6HD - Waldorf Blofeld - Oberheim OB-12 - Kurzweil PC3K8 - E_MU Vintage Keys Plus,
Ensoniq SQ-R, M-Audio Venom, Peavey Spectrum Synth, Yamaha CS1x, SY85, TG500
Roland JV-1080, U-220, JD-XA, D-50, JP-8000
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by Rara » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:38 am

PaulMueck wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 3:33 pm
What I don't understand:
do the bug problems only occur with sysex files? Loading from floppy disks is not affected?
and
can I load all sysex files into a SY85 v1.20?
No matter with which firmware saved before?
Sysex is loaded via midi only, not floppy.

Rara 0-)
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Re: Loading Sysex to SY85. Continued

Unread post by Rara » Sat Nov 09, 2019 11:44 am

PaulMueck wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 8:30 am
Hi Chris,

thanks again for your effort.

My SY has v1.20.
I changed the belt. But that doesn't help.
We also tried a Lotharek floppy emulator + adapter without success.(it's on the positiv list of HxC - so, it should work)
I sent it to a technican.
He already replaces the controller chip for the floppy,
but it still doesn't work.
I hope very much that he finally can repair it.

I'm thinking about to get another SY85.
There's an offer for 230€.
I told the guy that he has to check if the floppy loads disks.
He tried, but first attempts didn't work.
I will not buy it if he can't give the guarantee that the floppy is working.
Get on to ebay, look up this item number 303241584598 plus find the panasonic JU256 floppy drive, that will fix your issues.
It may be a bit on the pricey side once it is in no more headaches. I am running this combo in my SY85 and it works very well.
the only thing you need do is cut a hole through the back of the metal bracket for the adapter to go through.

Rara 0-)
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