SY85 problem

The Yamaha SY85 is a digital music workstation introduced in 1992. Unlike other Yamaha synthesizers of the time (SY77 and the SY99) the SY85 does not use FM synthesis. Instead, its sounds are based on samples, which can be layered and modified to create new sounds.

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Vickroy1
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SY85 problem

Unread post by Vickroy1 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:49 am

I’m new at all this but I need some help. We have an
SY85 that was our daughters. The disk drive didn’t work and I researched the problem and the most common problem was a drive belt problem. I bought a new drive belt and replaced the belt which was broken. I thought all was well and then ordered a factory demo disk and later a factory reset disk. After inserted both disks it says “disk unformatted”. At first I thought maybe the first disk ( demo) was defective so I tried to clear the disk and reformat it. Well that worked and now I can copy songs so the disk drive must be working. However when I got the factory reset disk in it said the same thing “disk unformatted”. This time I don’t want to mess the disk up and therefore lose everything on the disk. Any ideas why the drive will copy songs and play the back but won’t recognize the disks I ordered. The guy I ordered the disks from said the disks were not defective. Any suggestions what I can try? I don’t know where to go next. Do I order a new drive? Why does it work when I format the disk?
Tell me what to do next. The factory voices and sounds seem to continue to work.

Jim
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Saul
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by Saul » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:00 am

Hi Jim, welcome to the forums :)

It has been a very long time since I owned the SY85 but there are a couple of things that come to mind. First the discs might not have originally been formatted on the SY85. It is very picky about discs formatted on a PC and 9 times out of 10 will refuse to read them....hence the message asking you to format them.

Next it could be the drive belt. Some are better than others and if you have one that is a little too tight or too loose the drive will spin at a slightly different speed than standard and this results in problems reading data. The SY85 in particular is very sensitive to drive speed.

Of course you may need a new drive but if you can format discs on it and then write to the discs as well as read from them I would hazard a guess that your drive is fine.

I am sure some of the guys will have some things to add here so will leave the rest to them.
Saul
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by Rara » Sun Feb 03, 2019 3:52 am

What Saul describes is correct.
Did you clean the little wheels with isopropyl alcohol, always a good idea to do that also.

Many discs purchased online are made via PC. SY85 will flat out refuse anything formatted on PC.
Sometimes discs purchased online are "refurbished" in that the innards of a 1.44Mb floppy are
put into a 720K shell. particularly with a few types found on Amazon.
Discs need to be formatted in the instrument first, then you can copy and paste what ever you want
on PC after that.

Rara 0-)
Last edited by Rara on Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Yamaha: SY35, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, MC307, MKB200
Kawai: XD5, Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: MA-201
Digitech studio 400
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1, Studiomaster: Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1

To be resurrected: SY77,FZ1,CZ1000,CZ5000, MKB200
Retired: Dr550mk2,SE-70,SR-16,D110
Boat anchors: ESI2000 :angry-banghead:
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Vickroy1
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by Vickroy1 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 3:51 pm

Thanks. Any way to get a factory reset that has been formatted on SY85. Maybe the disks were formatted on a pc? Sounds like this is the most likely
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Rara
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by Rara » Tue Feb 05, 2019 1:42 am

Using a PC copy the contents of the floppy to a temporary directory, format the disk in SY85 then copy temp directory contents back on to floppy.
Then you've got a working disk and a back up on pc at the same time. :-)

Rara 0-)
Yamaha: SY35, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, MC307, MKB200
Kawai: XD5, Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: MA-201
Digitech studio 400
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1, Studiomaster: Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1

To be resurrected: SY77,FZ1,CZ1000,CZ5000, MKB200
Retired: Dr550mk2,SE-70,SR-16,D110
Boat anchors: ESI2000 :angry-banghead:
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parametric
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by parametric » Tue Feb 05, 2019 2:55 am

I'm convinced that this problem is due to the fundamental differences between the DD and the HD Drives.

When the 3.5" floppy drive was first introduced, they were DD (720k) ONLY, and the HEAD size was

commensurate with that capacity.

The Jump to HD (while retaining the same physical size of the Media, was achieved by

1) Higher Coercivity media, and

2) reducing the head-height to HALF it's former height, thus doubling the track count . . .

Result is that the Media looks the same, apart from the extra hole - and the Drives themselves Look the same - visually.

The Drive in the SY85 is a DD Drive and as such, does not have the GRUNT to successfully write to HD Media

(though the SY may (annoyingly) report a successful write).

Inevitable, when you try to READ that disk back into the SY it will usually fail . . . .

Annoyingly - SOME users report success with HD media - but it's generally not recommended if you care

for the security of your stuff . . . .

As <Rara> said . . . The Disk NEEDS to be formatted in the SY First . . . .

When buying disks such as "Factory Set" online, you have to wonder if the seller is formatting the disks in an SY - FIRST?

If NOT, then I fear problems will ensue. SURE they will read OK in a PC, but that's not the whole story . . .

It is Highly unlikely that anyone these days will have a genuine DD Drive in their PC.

The last time I saw anything close on line, was from a Computer-Breakers operation that had some drives stripped out

from some old Amstrad PCs, but that was YEARS ago . . . .

I attempted to explain the issue in this old post of mine:

viewtopic.php?f=56&t=6324&hilit=Floppy+ ... =15#p32435

Once the Disk has been formatted in the SY you can move it to and from the PC with it's HD,

subject to the recommendations in the above post . . .

Hope that Helps

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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Rara
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by Rara » Tue Feb 05, 2019 5:48 am

Perhaps there should be a sticky floppy disk/drive FAQ thread, to cover all keyboards.
Rara 0-)
Yamaha: SY35, SY85, TX7, PSR 4600 - Roland: Juno106, MC307, MKB200
Kawai: XD5, Korg: Poly800Mk2 (moog slayer mod)
Casio: MA-201
Digitech studio 400
Tascam Porta 5 HS, MM1, Studiomaster: Fusion
Modded SX Bass, fat wires, Dimarzio DP250 pickups, Ernie Ball strings / Gliga 1

To be resurrected: SY77,FZ1,CZ1000,CZ5000, MKB200
Retired: Dr550mk2,SE-70,SR-16,D110
Boat anchors: ESI2000 :angry-banghead:
User avatar United States of America
Vickroy1
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Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2019 1:55 am

Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by Vickroy1 » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:35 pm

Thanks for the information especially from Rara. I do not have a pc with a 3.5 floppy. Do you know where I could get a factory reset disk that is formatted properly or do you have a suggestion where I could send my 3.5 floppy from this vendor to have it copied to an SY85 formatted floppy. I can format a blank floppy on the SY85 but can’t copy from the disk I purchased.

Thanks.
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parametric
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by parametric » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:58 am

The problem is probably that the vendor did not format the disk FIRST in an SY85 before copying the files to the disks.

Unless he's familiar with the SY and it's "foibles", he won't understand the need to do the above . . . . . .

Generic 720k Drives (that have the full height head) are long gone now, and exist only in boards like the SY85.

ALL 3.5" drives that you come across will be HD (and have the smaller head). This is the problem.

You might format a couple of disks in the SY, send them to the vendor and ask if he would copy the Factory Set

and the Demo disk to the disks you sent.

Other than that - buy a USB floppy drive (about $10 on ebay) so you can copy stuff to SY Disks.

The disks you bought SHOULD read ok in such a drive . . .

Most of the files you need are in the download section here in the Forum.

I'd send them myself, but I've temporarily misplaced my own USB floppy drive (just ordered another one)

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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parametric
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Re: SY85 problem

Unread post by parametric » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:19 pm

Here's the Factory Set for the SY85:
FACT-SET.zip
(36.22 KiB) Downloaded 4 times
You'll need a usb-floppy drive to copy it to a disk for the SY . . . .

Unzip and copy the FACT-SET.G01 file to a floppy formatted in the SY

The SY should then "see" it . . . .

parametric
Alesis Fusion 8SSD AND 6SSD - BOTH are 384Mb/120Gb SSD/Akai ADVANCE61/Yamaha MOXF6/1024Mb Flash Ram/Yamaha SY85/8.5mb vol/1024k non-vol/DX21/Roland MT32/Bachmann double overstrung Baby Grand Piano/Win10 Pro/Ubuntu MATE 15.0.4/iBook G4/Mac OS 10.4.6/ProTools 7.4/MBox2/M-Audio MicroTrack 24/96

NI Komplete11 Ultimate

Sector101 2x SYEMB06 / 4 x EXM-E3 128MB DRAM Module

BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
http://www.chrisnmiller.co.uk/Chris
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