"End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by jima » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:09 pm

SysExJohn wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 11:24 am
jima wrote:
Sat Aug 19, 2017 2:26 pm
This is the 'Don't get me started' forum isn't it? Yep, OK, just making certain because those two little letters B and T do really get me started. I have said it before many times - BT is totally and solely to blame for the appalling state of broadband in this country. Their protectionist and Luddite attitude going back three decades and more means we are now years behind the curve. I really feel for Derek and others in a similar situation. It should not be possible for someone on a camel in the Sahara to get a better bandwidth than in Wales for goodness' sake!

I haven't dug into the real story behind it yet but splitting OpenReach off looks like a good move on the surface. I don't think that means that BT will lose their top three position in my little black book any time soon, mind you lol

Sorry Chris - to the OP - I completely agree about your end credits stance. I'd rather not have them than just a miniscule unreadable sidebar on the screen. Of course, what cable channels et al. do to chop bits out all over the place to make space for advertisements beggars belief.
Rather late to come back to this thread, but here goes WTH.

Actually, it's not BT that's to blame for the slow roll-out of fibre.
How come?

{...}
BT offered the government then in power to start the roll-out of fibre across the country, but needed significant funding in order to do that.
{...}
So, as usual, one can blame politicians for your predicament.
Sorry, no, I don't buy that. BT was a monster compared to the smaller minnows who did go ahead anyway and started to roll out fibre connections over a decade ago. I am the recipient of one such and even today (TODAY for goodness' sake) BT would not be a able to give me the bandwidth (~212 Mbits real world) I enjoy today because one enterprising company started the process.

I quite believe BT tried to get the government to fund it so they didn't have to. I have always found from direct experience that BT has a distasteful monopolistic and protectionist attitude, unhelpful to a fault.

Much though I am always happy to heap opprobrium onto the shoulders of politicians I don't think that in this case I can. Soz.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by jima » Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:18 pm

+ 1 from me. Even the news reprises their 'top story' several time during the limited time they have. It's just immensely annoying. I agree completely that advertising during a program should be banned, contained to in-between programs only. The trouble is, the more adverts they are able to propagate, the more they can charge and on a subscriber cable channel the rules are not the same as public broadcasting so protection and moderation is less (or non-existent).

FWIW I am so sick of the disruption, wasted time, interruption to the program flow that I am currently planning to sack off Virgin in favour of a combination of Freesat, Netflix and NowTV (btw Apple TV 4th Gen's are great). As a bonus, less cost too! Ultimately, their greed will be counter-productive.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by Saul » Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 pm

Netflix and Now TV are perfect examples of how to do subscription based television the right way. You pay a monthly sub, you can cancel any time and there are NO adverts. How the hell Sky get away with bombarding their satellite programming with adverts AND charge a ludicrous subscription fee is beyond my understanding. They OWN Now TV but there are no adverts on that service, how come?

I think a lot of this is down to inertia amongst the viewing public. They just put up with it year after year and whilst that is the case there will always be adverts. The ads will get longer and longer. They even put product placement in the programs now so they can keep brainwashing us for the whole time we are viewing!

It's very simple. If you are PAYING to watch a channel there should be zero advertising on that channel. Otherwise wtf are you paying for?

Likewise if your paying for a broadband service is should work and work well. I am sick and tired seeing that familiar "program not available" or suffering buffering issues on a 75mb connection. So not only am I paying for a streaming service AND the broadband connection it streams on but I have to also be at the mercy of a flaky BT connection even though I am with Vodafone. The line and the box is all BT.

Of course that raises another issue. Are we factoring in the cost of broadband when looking at the price of subscription services?
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by SysExJohn » Thu Feb 22, 2018 8:00 pm

The issue also was that BT had shelled out huge sums of money for the 3G licenses and was in debt to the tune of about £30,000,000,000 at the time. Remember, not just 3G in the UK but right across Europe too. So much so, that all training got cancelled, my course included, and they ended up selling off the BT cellphone network, which was rebranded "o2". I was there at the time. I was burnt by the fallout.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Thu Feb 22, 2018 10:19 pm

Saul wrote:
Wed Feb 21, 2018 9:22 pm
Netflix and Now TV are perfect examples of how to do subscription based television the right way.
Since this thread is about end credits, I'll add one thing that bugs me. A while back Netflix made a change in the way they display end credits-- the video you're watching gets shoved up into a small window in the upper left of the screen and they show the information screen for the next episode, which will start to autoplay unless you change your preferences to say you don't want episodes to autoplay. Unfortunately, that option doesn't affect whether or not they shrink the end credits to the little window. If you actually want to see the credits-- maybe you wanted to see who played in a particular guest role-- you can select the little window and restore the end credits to full size, but that takes a few moments to do and it may make it difficult to catch the name of the person you're looking for. In fact, if you pause the end credits and rewind them a bit, then start playing them again, the screen will shrink back down when it reaches the same point in the end credits; I guess there's some embedded code at that point in the video which triggers it. I really dislike that. :(
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by jima » Fri Feb 23, 2018 12:41 pm

Whoops - we did drift OT, didn't we! I agree, I hate that end-credit minimising (at least on NFX you can enlarge it) but thanks for the tip on autoplay, that's one that's getting changed.

Last comment on Barsteward Terriblecom then (can't resist).

"BT must make it easier for rival internet providers to use its telegraph poles, telecoms regulator Ofcom says."
"BT said it was "considering the implications"."

"BT must make it easier for rivals to install fibre on its telegraph poles and in its underground tunnels."
"BT said it had "noted" the publication of Ofcom's proposals."

Here we go again, BT's last gasp at keeping us in the 19th century. Perhaps if they spent less on saturation advertising they'd have more to spend on infrastructure.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by parametric » Fri Feb 23, 2018 2:46 pm

We certainly DID Jim - and Hurrah for that . . . . :lol:

During my "Pro Photographer" period, I worked at (what was) Post Office Research Dollis Hill, as indeed did

my Father. (back in the 1930s - he described Wooden Huts and a Duck Pond. Dollis Hill Lane - WAS ACTUALLY - a

"Country Lane", with Fields all around . . .)

He was in W01/3 (Radio Branch). When War broke out, he was seconded into the RNVR as Lt Cmdr to inspect

and report on Coastal Transmitting Stations pending the Japanese advance in Singapore -

and he spent time in Ceylon as a result.

I joined POR in June 1971 as a Photographer, and apart from routine Photographic Duties, I began to specialize in

the preparation of 1st-reduction masks (used in the preparation of integrated circuits).

This was basically, photographing on to Eastman Ultra high resolution plates (2" x 2"),

Artwork, drawn at (typically) 250x life size - at 25x REDUCTION.

My plates were then step-and-repeated at 10x reduction onto similar plates - to give a MATRIX of images on

a 2"x2" plate.

When ALL the "Layers" were complete, This SET was used to image onto the actual Silicon Slices,

adding the chemical layers one by one and selectively etching the images to build up the

"components" that comprised the circuit.

The Slices were then tested, and faulty circuits marked, before the Slice was sectioned in to individual circuits,

for mounting and cold-weld wired with Gold, in to what we would recognize as an "IC" package.

Chip sizes varied, but typically around 3.2mm x 4.3mm.

The "Lid" was then attached and sealed.

I believe MUCH of the work was in the cause of HIGH RELIABILITY components for under-sea "Repeaters" . . . .

I DID see quoted somewhere a pedicted failure rate of <2 in 10000 pcs over 20 years at an operating temperature

of 100 Deg C (Not very common I guess at the bottom of the Sea?).

My POINT being that Post Office Research was the Best of the Best back then.

Gifted guys doing amazing work that was pushing frontiers.

When Privatization was announced and the PO was to become a "Corporation" - an Airfield at Martlesham Heath

was chosen. I made many Photo Reconnaissance visits during construction, and sometimes to provide

photography for Research that was pushing ahead there in the early days, - but I was not happy to MOVE there

permanently and so I left in April of 1975 - as "BT" was born . . . .

My impression of what PO Research had BECOME was not good and my view has NOT changed with time.

Even with something as basic as Telephones, their offerings were EXPENSIVE and MODEST in Spec, and they

jealously guarded their monopoly position . . .

Who can FORGET the little labels attached to telephones that become available everywhere,

bearing the GREEN DOT (for compliance) and the RED TRIANGLE (NOT to be connected to the PSN).

The Red Triangle models FREQUENTLY offered more exiting and extensive features than the dumbed-down

offerings branded BT.

This is WHY I am largely un-surprised by the impressions I see voiced in here . . . .

It didn't use to be like that . . . .

[/rant]

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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by Saul » Fri Feb 23, 2018 3:02 pm

Well you know on this forum we do like to keep the conversation flowing and yes it meanders about a bit but we usually arrive back at the main subject...eventually ;)

End credits? Yeah they all seem to be jumping on that "minimise" band-wagon. It's bloody annoying to say the least. I often wonder how they reach these decisions because they can't be based on any sort of market research?

As for BT and their "considering implications" nonsense. This is just another delaying tactic which they have been using for years and the dull witted idiots we employ to oversea all these things are happy to do less work for more money and leave it with BT to decide what to do.

WE collectively let them get away with it because we don't organise and sort it out. Sure there are consumer groups such as Which? who regularly make a noise about it but politicians know only too well that they can hide, delay and generally ignore it all because it will go away eventually. By the time someone raises the issue again it will probably be someone else's ball to kick into the long grass.

But what to do? Unless we all voted with our wallets en-masse it is never going to concern a monopoly like BT. They are too large to fail and they know the government would step in to shore things up...with OUR money if it ever came to it.

The British did not get a reputation for being slow for no reason. We are and always have been slow to react to changes in the world. We are like some doddering old granddad confused and befuddled by the fast pace of the modern world. We need to clear out the cobwebs (board members and politicians) that are clogging everything up and move forward with some real determination to get the job done.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:25 pm

Sorry, I was not trying to imply that the discussion had gone off-topic, which is something I expect to happen in any evolving conversation.

What I meant was that my gripe was about the end credits being minimized by Netflix, and not specifically about promotions being displayed during the end credits. Although I suppose the information screen for the next episode could conceivably be considered a type of promotion.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by SysExJohn » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:48 am

+1 on the minimisation of the end credits - should have said that earlier. ;-)

BTW, I'm not a Fanboi of BT, far from it, over the years (from about '72 to 2001) I've been on the receiving end of much malpractice (IMO), but also worked for them as a contracted lecturer both to train their own staff for about 4 1/2 years, and for a while as part of the team that introduced the roll out of DSL to the UK ISP's. So I had much interaction with them at places like Martlesham interacting with the engineers.

Certainly they must have changed.
So did we all as we went from 300bps asynchronous modems, through to 56kbps which connected at the exchange end through to the 64kbps digital circuits of the IDN. Then ISDN, then DSL over copper (and some aluminium - eugh!) Then the roll out of ISDN30 over co-ax first then fibre and so on. They also went through internal comms over twisted pair, then heavy co-ax LANs then, ten base 2 and ten base T, Cat 3, 5 and so on wiring, then wireless. The changes in data comms have been massive over the years. Privatisation meant dealing with other companies much more, like STC to name but one.

It has always seemed that I had to run just to stand still so rapid has been the rate of change.
What I did come to learn though, was just what a massive logistical problem it is to upgrade a huge legacy network, and just how much it costs.

And remember, BT is no longer run by people who understand the technicalities and logistics, it's run by bean counters, like so many big businesses.

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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by Rara » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

Another +1 to the end credits issue
Some of what I'll write here will probably be a reflection of whats already been said ....
Only from the other side of the world :-)

ABC-TV in Australia is guilty of squashing credits as OP has stated
in exactly the same fashion.
Yes it is annoying, as some else had stated sometimes I wanna now
who did the soundtrack as well

At the same time, the credits are sometimes sped up to a point it's impossible to read
anything at all, it's just a blur. Especially so on the commercial stations.

While the credits are sped up, the credit music is truncated as well.
Sometimes the credits are not shown at all. Just to fit in more adds plus whats next at the same time.

Sometimes the credits are squashed sideways on the left to have an advert on the right.

Which reminds me of something, Digital TV's have this lovely gadget called guide or info (sarcasm),
if you press the guide button your presented with the whole days or nights programs even
the whole week.

It makes redundant the stations broadcasting whats next, even tomorrow. so why do it?
Sometimes modern TV reminds of the beginning of the Kenny Everett show
"Lets push the button marked idiot and see what comes out"

TV for me personally has become so bad now I rarely watch it anymore. I have my mass of DVDs as well
and vhs tapes instead. Quite a few people I know don't have the TV antennae on the roof
any more, for them its all netflix.

I imagine when TV becomes more interactive, watching what you watch, more and more people
having smart internet connected TV's (maybe even voice controlled) it'll be a lot like facebook, (because not everyone has Fb)
Targeted manipulation of the masses. sounds a bit Orwellian ;-)
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by Saul » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:45 am

Ha ha, now there's a whole other topic, TV Guides! Who the hell writes the program descriptions? They are next to useless. We have 'YouView' which was supposed to be the all singing all dancing answer to roll back tv...it isn't! It's slow, clunky and the small amount of info they give you on each program is pretty much meaningless. It hardly tells you the subject matter let alone who is in it.

Oh an Netflix. Great quality, no adverts BUT, they do promote what THEY want you to watch. Actually finding movies or programs YOU prefer to watch is a convoluted task. You need to get onto a computer, log into Netflix and and enter www.netflix.com/browse/genre/XXXX into your browser's toolbar to bring up one of the thousands of genres in Netflix's library.

"XXXX" is a series of digits - 1089 is "Mind-bending Movies", for example; while 354 is "Movies Starring Matthew McConaughey" - currently a genre of one film.

List of codes and more info here https://www.telegraph.co.uk/on-demand/0 ... -tv-shows/
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:06 am

Netflix knows what I watch, and suggests other titles I might like based on what I've watched. But it probably skews its suggestions based on what's most popular as far as the number of viewers.
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by Rara » Fri Mar 09, 2018 11:26 am

354 is "Movies Starring Matthew McConaughey" - currently a genre of one film.
8O o_O

:lol: that is just so wrong on so many levels.

Give a genre to Vincent Price not Matthew McConaughey .... geez
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Re: "End Credits Promotions" . . . . .

Unread post by parametric » Sat Mar 10, 2018 2:16 am

The whole FreeView Service here in the UK is really a total MESS.

However the LCN system works is a total mystery to me. Channels are all over the place with no logical rhyme

or reason to where they are in the listing.

The actual programming is a mess too. What the hell is Startrek doing on the Horror Channel?

Sport is another fine example.

The whole POINT of lots of channels is that SPORT . . is shown . . er . . . on the SPORT channels, but no . . .

Vested interests and "Who owns which channel" interferes.

My partner endlessly bitches when her soaps are shelved to allow football (or whatever) - on a non-sport channel.

Program guide similar. e.g. In EVERY SINGLE ENTRY, your told:
StarTrek, the original series, digitally remastered like you've never seen it before
(yeah, just like the last fifteen times it's been repeated)
THEN there's hardly any room left for the synopsis (you would kind of LIKE to know WHICH episode it is :roll: )

With Anything that is a SERIES, it's always nice to know (S3/E15 of 28) Where the hell has THAT gone?

-and don't get me started on the junior-school spelling mistakes.

I have a growing collection of films and series I like to watch.

Often times, when the program/Film appears in the guide, I just go and get the DVD, slot that it and watch it.

NO bullshit interruptions - and when it's finished (if its a movie) - I have just saved around half an hour.

"Bundles" are another Con.

The trick here is to bundle one or two GOOD channels with a heap of absolute crap.

So in order to get what you really want - you have to have a load of rubbish you don't want -

and the SPs have made money out of the stuff nobody wants.

As regards Netflix and other similar services are concerned, for me there are simply not enough

decent movies THAT I WOULD WANT TO WATCH - to justify the subscription. I already own many in any case . . .

Not forgetting we have VirginMedia TV and a motorised FTA system too . .

However, I acknowledge that many people LIKE to have the big selection on offer from these services. (Y)

I think ALL TVs currently available have a CI Slot, which can accept a CAM. This is where you put your smartcard.

So - if you want UKGold, you go to UKTV and buy a card - and watch it. This way you can cut out Virgin

and BT and simply buy WHAT YOU WANT. I think German TV operates this way . . .(Miks?)

I think the TV License should probably go this way. Get rid of the detector vans.

No CARD = No Service. Simple.

My "thoughts" on TV advertising have already been well aired in here.

I basically don't watch Ads. At each "Break", I select the TV guide - on my TV there is no PIP and no audio -

so I see nothing onscreen except the guide.

Between 3 and 5 minutes is usually required. I blip back to the channel, and 0.2sec of audio is enough to

determine if it is an AD or not, but not enough to identify WHAT is being advertised.

By and by, the program resumes - usually at the top of the hour . . . .

Basically, If I DON'T hear my friends - and YOU GUYS in here, raving about a product - then as far as I'm concerned

- it does not exist, and is probably of NO interest to me whatever.

I don't buy the "Products Awareness" argument that seems to justify unrestrained advertising.

(If I'm NOT interested in acquiring a heap of shit - then I don't need to know that it's available) IYSWIM :lol:

My friends, and you guys are interested in similar things to me, and so I trust YOUR opinions -

rather than some script reading Celeb. (IYSWIM)

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When I settle down for an evening's viewing, I am NOT the least bit interested in Shopping. I want to relax and be entertained. When I AM interested in buying something, I will research it myself and determine how and where best to buy it. If a friend should mention a product or service, I might follow up IF it interests me. THAT is the only product awareness I need, or will respond to
[/rant] (for now) 8)

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Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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