(VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

All Other Yamaha Keyboards/Modules and Instruments Not Covered By Their Own Section

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(VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Maevinarsh » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:04 pm

Hello everyone. I'm a piano student and I also play the organ for my church. So sometimes/commonly I do music performances in my school using my keyboard. I own a Casio CTK 800 which aint that good for performances, but good for beginners. This Casio keyboard has very weak voices which the voices of this keyboard (strings, organ, piano) does not sound good at all, and totally not suitable for performances, it does not even have bass chord. I was using it for 13 years (since i was 3. So I have decided to buy a YAMAHA keyboard/synthesizer/arranger workstation. The thing is there are too many models with different features,
I want a keyboard that is very suitable to be used for music performances with rich sound voices.
The requirements for the keyboard I want:
1) YAMAHA/ROLAND/KORG Branded
2) 88 key keyboard/synthesizer/arranger workstation
3) Alot of instruments/voices (around 1000) with rich voices and sound quality that is really made for performances
4) Has Bass Chord (play bass at the left hand, commonly known as ABC) with different type of bass voices (contra bass, organ bass, elec. bass, etc)
5) A lot of voice options/buttons
6) Around 1000 USD
7) Professional

I need it urgently because Im gonna have a performance soon. Hopefully you guys help me list down a number of keyboards reaching these requirements. Thanks In Advance!
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Saul » Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:40 pm

Hi Maevinarsh, welcome to yamahamusicians.com :)

That's an interesting question but there really are not that many options out there.

The requirement to have an 88 note keybed does restrict things quite a lot as nearly all arranger keyboards do not come in that format.

If we are looking at a budget of $1000 or under there is really only the DGX660 https://amzn.to/2X7Tz0C that would be suitable from Yamaha. I am not sure it does everything you want but it is the only option available with a 88 note graded hammer action keybed.
Yamaha DGX660.png
Yamaha DGX 660
I can't think of any arranger keyboards from KORG that have an 88 note keybed. Even their top of the range Pa4x only comes with a max of 76 keys.

Likewise Roland do not have anything suitable either.

Perhaps someone else knows of an arranger with an 88 note keybed that will do the things you need it to do?
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by SysExJohn » Tue Feb 19, 2019 7:33 pm

I believe the DGX 660 is a fantastic keyboard, but it weighs in at a very heavy 21Kgs, a bit over 46lbs. :cry:
There's no way I'd want to schlep something that heavy around. (Actually, there's no way I could schlep it around!) :roll:

Casio make a very good line of newer keyboards these days and it might bear looking at the Privia PX560m.

PX560.jpg
PX560
PX560.jpg (44.8 KiB) Viewed 404 times
I have one and it's roughly half the weight of the Yammy 660. :clap:
Whether the voices will suit I can't answer, you'd need to try it.
It has 650 built in voices, but up to 400 can be edited and stored separately in user presets.
It has an excellent, triple sensor, graded hammer action keyboard with ebony, ivory feel keys.
But the voices are all editable in it's "Hex Editor" to suit, and can be saved to user presets.
The bass loudspeakers are mounted on the back, reducing the depth of the whole thing compared to the DGX660.
It has a great colour touch screen.
The only real drawback IMV is that the arranger is fairly rudimentary.
I have to say I'm really delighted with my 560. :) :D

Just a thought.
JohnG.

P.S. If you have any questions about it please fire away.
UW500; 2xMU1000 + PLGs AN, DX, VL, VH & PF; SC8850; EWI4000s + VL70m; Samson Graphite 49.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Saul » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:04 pm

It is indeed a great keyboard John and you know I am a big fan of Casio but, the reason I didn't mention it is because it is outside the budget and the arranger functions are really not this keyboard's strong points.

From what Maevinarsh I think the arranger part might be essential?
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by SysExJohn » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:21 pm

Apologies, and you're not wrong, Saul. :doh:

But I thought throwing another consideration into the mix might be worth while.
Yep, I know it's $200 over budget. :shock:

When I finally decided upon the 560 I was actually looking for something a few hundred pounds cheaper myself.
I'd set my maximum budget including stand and pedals a lot lower.
But I ended up, without regret, spending more. :dance:

True, there are better arranger keyboards out there, but it does have a 17 track arranger which might (N.B. might) be sufficient for the OP's needs. :?:
For song recording and some simple editing it's actually not too bad.
There are things you can't do, but then I resort to a sequencer program on a PC ... sorted. :wink:

And ... there's just NO way I could schlep a 21 kilo keyslab about to concerts.
I know how much difficulty I have hauling a full suitcase in and out of the boot (trunk) of a car (circa 20 kilos).
Trying to get that onto a stand would not only slip a disc ut probably end up giving me a heart attack! :angry-screaming: :music-deathmetal: :scared-ghostface: :violin:

ATB, :whistle:
JohnG.
UW500; 2xMU1000 + PLGs AN, DX, VL, VH & PF; SC8850; EWI4000s + VL70m; Samson Graphite 49.
Privia PX-560, AN1x, Novation X-Station 25. E-MU 02 cardbus + 1616m x 2. Sonar 7 PE and now CbB. XGworks.
Garritan GPO4 and GPO5, COMB2, JABB3, IO, Organs, Steinway, World, Harps ... and now CFX Concert Grand.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Saul » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:36 pm

Indeed John and I'm with you on all that. We definitely don't want to be lugging around 20...sometimes 30kg of keyboards these days, I don't anyway.

Problem we have here though is the choices, given the spec required are very limited. At least as far as my knowledge of arranger keyboards goes. I don't think there are any with a fully weighted 88 note keybed apart from the DGX? And I am talking full blown arrangers here.

Perhaps it is a case of revising what is needed and how things can be achieved in other ways. Using backing tracks would solve most issues and free up the choice of keyboards on offer?
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Maevinarsh » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:45 pm

Hi! What would you like to say about the YAMAHA MX88?
Does it have what I need?
The price is decent, they say that it has alot of high-quality voices, how far is that true?
And the most importantly, does it has bass?*

*Of course we all indeed know that almost all synthesizers/arranger k. has bass voices, like contrabass, elec.bass, finger bass, synthesia bass, organ bass and so on. The thing I want is,
Let say now Im playing a song, as we know we can split lower and upper, so i want to play the LOWER part as bass. For an example, let say now im playing the G,C & E keys (C Major), I want the keyboard to give Bass for only C, not G, C and E. SO it should only give Bass for C when I play the C Major Chord.
So not all keyboards does that. I have noticed that the Korg PA600 does that, but im not gonna buy that. I dont really know what is the name of the feature, but I need it because we all know that bass is necessary for all music.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by SysExJohn » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:42 pm

Does it even have an arranger on board?
The spec on the Yammy US site doesn't say anything about one.

You'd have to read the manual to find out about the bass voice.
I'll check the 560 manual to see whether it does exactly what you want.

JohnG.
UW500; 2xMU1000 + PLGs AN, DX, VL, VH & PF; SC8850; EWI4000s + VL70m; Samson Graphite 49.
Privia PX-560, AN1x, Novation X-Station 25. E-MU 02 cardbus + 1616m x 2. Sonar 7 PE and now CbB. XGworks.
Garritan GPO4 and GPO5, COMB2, JABB3, IO, Organs, Steinway, World, Harps ... and now CFX Concert Grand.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by anotherscott » Wed Feb 20, 2019 1:49 pm

Saul wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:40 pm
I can't think of any arranger keyboards from KORG that have an 88 note keybed. Even their top of the range Pa4x only comes with a max of 76 keys.
The Havian 30, but that's now discontinued. If that had had line out, line in, and 5-pin MIDI jacks, I might have bought that one.
Saul wrote:
Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:04 pm
It is indeed a great keyboard John and you know I am a big fan of Casio but, the reason I didn't mention it is because it is outside the budget
Budget was "about $1000" not "under $1000" so I'd say the PX560 qualifies. But if it is indeed over budget, the PX360 has most of the same features and could work for him as well. Though I don't know if either has the bass feature he's looking for.
Maevinarsh wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:45 pm
Hi! What would you like to say about the YAMAHA MX88?
Does it have what I need?
The price is decent, they say that it has alot of high-quality voices, how far is that true?
And the most importantly, does it has bass?*
I didn't suggest MX88 in the other forum where you posted this question, because there you mentioned piano, organ, and strings as particular sounds of interest, and the Kurzweil SP6 is much better for organ, as well as being at least comparable for piano and strings (that's also why I recommended the SP6 over the Kross and Juno DS88). As with the Kurzweil, the closest thing the MX88 has to any kind of auto accompaniment is the arpeggiator, I don't know whether you might be able to do what you want with any of these boards' arpeggiators, but I suspect not, so if this is a must, it might rule out all of them. (I've never use arpeggiators or auto accompaniment features myself.)

You say "there are too many models with different features" but as Saul kind of said above, there really aren't all that many 88's within the $1k range to choose from, especially when you want a large voice library (eliminates the simpler pianos) and accompaniment features. And again getting back to what Saul said, you'll have more "arranger" style boards to choose from if you can manage without the 88. Then you could look at Yamahas that are lighter than the DGX 660, or the Casio MZ-X500/MZ-X300, or assorted Korgs and Rolands.
Last edited by anotherscott on Fri Feb 22, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Saul » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:40 pm

Yeah I think the two sticking points are the 88 note keybed and the arranger features. The MX88 definitely is not an arranger type keyboard.

There will need to be a compromise one way or another because right now there doesn't seem to be a 88 note full on arranger type keyboard for the price or indeed any price.

IF it is just bass that is needed then of course you could use the MX88 and split the keyboard so you play bass with one hand and the melody with the other. You could also do the same with the Casio PX-S3000, MODX8 etc
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Maevinarsh » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:58 pm

Saul wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:40 pm
Yeah I think the two sticking points are the 88 note keybed and the arranger features. The MX88 definitely is not an arranger type keyboard.

There will need to be a compromise one way or another because right now there doesn't seem to be a 88 note full on arranger type keyboard for the price or indeed any price.

IF it is just bass that is needed then of course you could use the MX88 and split the keyboard so you play bass with one hand and the melody with the other. You could also do the same with the Casio PX-S3000, MODX8 etc
Hi, thank you for the reply! I just want to know, why do you say that the MX88 isnt an arranger type keyboard? They stated in their website (https://my.yamaha.com/en/products/music ... oduct-tabs) that it has more than 1100 voices (which surely has alot of type of different voices from different categories like piano, guitar, violin, strings, and many more).
Comparing to the model you have recommended me, the YAMAHA DGX660, it only has less than 200 voices (as it is more towards a piano)

Well of course ill be able to decide which keyboard ill buy IF I GO TO A STORE AND TEST A FEW KEYBOARDS. But, I just want to know now, from experts like you guys, or maybe keyboard sellers like you guys if you all are one, does the MX88 has a wide option of instruments/voices to play from different categories (as the website mentioned that it has more than 1000 high quality voices)? Just to reconfirm.
And are you guys trying to say that the MX88 does not have the 'layer' option? (The option that mixes two/three different voices at the upper/lower keyboard)

Thanks In Advance!
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by anotherscott » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:24 pm

Maevinarsh wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:58 pm
I just want to know, why do you say that the MX88 isnt an arranger type keyboard? They stated in their website that it has more than 1100 voices
Having lots of voices does not make a keyboard an arranger...
Maevinarsh wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:58 pm
And are you guys trying to say that the MX88 does not have the 'layer' option? (The option that mixes two/three different voices at the upper/lower keyboard)
All the boards mention can do splits and layers. That is also not something that makes a keyboard an arranger.

But worth noting is that, out of the box, the MX88 can only play two sounds at a time (which means you can split OR layer, but not both). However there is free software available that will let you create setups ("performances") with more than two sounds playing at a time, The fact that it has to be done via external software means you can't do this stuff "on the fly," you have to set up any desired more-than-two-voice setups ahead of time using your computer. The other boards mentioned don't have this limitation.

So to answer the question you probably have, now that I've told you what doesn't make something an arranger, what does?

The basic characteristic of an arranger is that the keyboard automatically plays some of the parts by itself, changing those parts based on what notes you play. Actually, this describes any keyboard that has an auto-accompaniment system, but the term "arranger" goes a little further in the sophistication of the backing tracks, i.e. the ability to specify different feels for different parts of a song as you play (intro, bridge, ending, etc.), and they tend to have many more different style available. They also may have specially programmed instrument sounds in them, that are not generally designed to be played by humans, but are there really to provide more authentic sounding backing tracks. You may not need all of this. But the Auto Bass Chord feature you described is a kind of accompaniment system, so if you need at least what that does, the MX88, SP6, Kross, and DS88 won't do it. Something described as an arranger would probably do all that and more. Something that doesn't quite cross the "arranger" threshold but does have "auto accompaniment" (like the PX560/PX360) may or may not do enough of what you want, that's something you'd have to check into further or try for yourself. It may also help to download the manuals and check youtube video demonstrations.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Maevinarsh » Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm

Hi. Thank You for your kind reply. So I understood about what you have just said. So if you're trying to say that the MX88, Korg Kross and so on dont really have A.B.C and they are not arrangers, what about a keyboard called Rolland Juno DS88? I love its features, it has alot of voices, and so on. So is it an arranger synthesizer? if its not, at least can you tell me that is it good:
In terms of sound quality and quantity (above 1000 voices), and if it is used by professionals and music directors during stage performances.
And is it a really suitable for stage performances? I dont really need an auto accompaniment system, i can play all by myself.
I am very sure that the Roland Juna DS88 is better than YAMAHA MX88, but not in terms of sound quality, but its other features.

Thanks In Advance.
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by anotherscott » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:17 pm

Maevinarsh wrote:
Wed Feb 20, 2019 6:32 pm
Hi. Thank You for your kind reply. So I understood about what you have just said. So if you're trying to say that the MX88, Korg Kross and so on dont really have A.B.C and they are not arrangers, what about a keyboard called Rolland Juno DS88? I love its features, it has alot of voices, and so on. So is it an arranger synthesizer? if its not, at least can you tell me that is it good:
In terms of sound quality and quantity (above 1000 voices), and if it is used by professionals and music directors during stage performances.
And is it a really suitable for stage performances? I dont really need an auto accompaniment system, i can play all by myself.
I am very sure that the Roland Juna DS88 is better than YAMAHA MX88, but not in terms of sound quality, but its other features.
I mentioned the DS88 in earlier responses. DS88, Kross 2, MX88, SP6 are all the same basic kind of keyboard. None of them are arrangers. All can be split to do left hand bass, but I don't know if you can get the exact bass feature you want out of them. The only sounds you specifically mentioned in your original post were piano, organ, and strings. All these keyboard have those sounds, but for those particular sounds, I'd say Kurzweil SP6 is the best of the lot, especially for organ. I agree, DS88 has a very strong feature set. Each of these boards has some advantages over the others. They are all suitable for use by professionals, but each can do some things better than the others. I'd say that the stock DS88 strings are not as good as Yamaha or Kurzweil, but you can load one expansion pack into the DS, and they have some expansions with better strings.

Here are some features that differentiate these models (besides their actual sounds): ability to load custom samples, ability to switch sounds or sets of sounds without cutting off the previous sounds you were playing, flexibility in controlling external MIDI sound sources, ability to adjust the individual drawbar settings of an organ sound, ability to edit sounds on the board vs. via computer/iPad, how many sounds in a split/layered combination can have their own effects on them, ability to trigger sounds from pads, how big/heavy they are to carry around. For starters. ;-)

Casio PX560 is a kind of hybrid... it is kind of in the same category as the boards I mentioned above, but it also has some auto accompaniment facilities. I understand you don't care about that, but if you can't get the left hand bass behavior you want out of the others, it's possible that you might get it out of this, I don't know. The other Casio advantages would be smallest/lightest of the bunch, possibly the best feeling action, and built-in speakers which can sometimes come in handy. Though it varies with personal taste and with the particular sounds you're comparing, I think in general, often the other boards have the edge in sound quality, but see for yourself. (There's also the PX360 which is a scaled down PX560.)
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Re: (VERY URGENT) Don't know which keyboard to buy...

Unread post by Saul » Wed Feb 20, 2019 8:46 pm

Ok so if you can play all the parts yourself without need a keyboard to do it automatically for you then you don't need an "arranger keyboard".

I had the Roland DS88 for a while and it's a great keyboard. Fantastic quality keys and sounds plus of course it has a "virtual expansion slot" for you to download free sounds from the Roland website. It is NOT an arranger keyboard so no A,B,C type of thing.

Perhaps the reason you are confused about all this is because you have been playing the same keyboard for so long.

Another thing to keep in mind is none of these keyboards apart from the DGX660 and the Casio PX 560 have built in speakers. The DS88, MX88 etc all need to be plugged into a PA or amp of some sort.



This is for the DS61 but everything is the same apart from the keys.




Do have a serious think about how many sounds you need? You may be looking at big numbers like 1000 sounds or 1100 sounds but realistically how many will you use?
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