SA Pickups

[balston11]

Sean suggested we strat a Yamaha SA Pickup thread seems a good idea to add to all our knowledge I'll start
Here's some from an SA800 which are Spinex

SA800 Spinex front.jpg (66.54 KiB) Viewed 7161 times

SA800 Spinex 2.jpg (83.4 KiB) Viewed 7161 times

All the next 3 are from an SA1000 interesting because two are marked as SA1500 a model that was never produced.

SA1000.jpg (80.56 KiB) Viewed 7161 times

SA1000 marked 1500.jpg (88.03 KiB) Viewed 7175 times

sa1000 marked 1500 2.jpg (84.81 KiB) Viewed 7175 times

[HomerJSimpson]

interesting because two are marked as SA1500 a model that was never produced.

Well, if you literally mean that it didn't make it into mass production that would be correct. If you mean it doesn't exist, never underestimate the ingenuity of Japanese companies to confuse the hell out of collectors and researchers with outliers!

Screenshot 2023-06-24 at 15.49.23.jpg (17.39 KiB) Viewed 5149 times

Allegedly (flickr account) there was a number of prototypes in 1979, even more stunning that pickups made for them not only made their way into a production SA1000 but also made it out of it again for us to see! Also the PUs show Showa 52 and 53, which would be 1977 and '78, adding another question mark to that story.

Re SA2000 pickups, my current (only a few minutes old) working theory is that they were marked "SA2000" until some point around 1980, then they may have stopped using different pickups for (some of?) the SA series?

1978 SA2000 marked PU:

Another one:

This pair is 1980 and marked only "SA":

1981:

[balston11]

From my website

*Some of the pickups are marked as SA1500 see pictures below. When Yamaha were asked about this the Yamaha representative said there were two possible explanations:
The originally intended this to be an SA1500 hence more expensive or
They marked them wrong.
There was actually a prototype SA1500 made but that was later around 1979. It didn't make it into production.

[balston11]

2000S also posted on SA thread

SA2000S pups.jpg (115.93 KiB) Viewed 5145 times

SA2000S.jpg (94.64 KiB) Viewed 5145 times

And 2200

SA2200 front alleg.jpg (64.65 KiB) Viewed 5145 times

SA2200 alleg.jpg (77.31 KiB) Viewed 5141 times

The 2200 I cannot be certain of but seems genuine

[balston11]

Whilst we are talking about pickups here is an interesting page about Spinex
https://www.guitarsofjapan.com/post/yam ... ery-solved

[HomerJSimpson]

From my website

*Some of the pickups are marked as SA1500 see pictures below. When Yamaha were asked about this the Yamaha representative said there were two possible explanations:
The originally intended this to be an SA1500 hence more expensive or
They marked them wrong.
There was actually a prototype SA1500 made but that was later around 1979. It didn't make it into production.

Well there you have it. Apparently there was a number of prototypes, but the pickups were produced at least one year earlier than 1979 (so it was likely more 1978).

The 2200 I cannot be certain of but seems genuine

Yeah that's how they look like, still the same parts but they saved the neat soldering terminals of the former SA PUs. But while we're at surprises:

Screenshot 2023-06-24 at 16.38.27.jpg (22.5 KiB) Viewed 5143 times

The only factory that's commonly known to having (very consistently) used a bolt in the tenon around 1980 was Matsumoku. Someone brought up another factory that occasionally did that, alas I forgot which that was but it wasn't Kasuga (as a known Yamaha contractor). That begs the question whether Yamaha did that too or Matsumoku produced guitars for Yamaha as well? Do you have any insights on that? Are all SA2000s having that bolt?

[balston11]

I have heard that Mats produced some guitars for Yamaha but only internet chat no proof of any sort

[HomerJSimpson]

I see. The raised tenon with the screw is so typically Matsumoku. Here's a better image from an SA1000 (dated 1980 by the seller but the PUs are stamped 53 and 54):

That doesn't mean Yamaha couldn't have adopted this technique (I assume Matsumoku did that to speed up production, you don't need a clamp and don't have to wait for the glue to cure before you can go on) but this seems to be (and likely remain) one of those mysteries... Back to pickups:

Here's the younger (54/1979) of the 2 pickups from that SA1000:

Here's an SA1000 pickup produced in 1981:

That would confirm at least that they stopped bothering with giving each model individual stamps maybe in 1980. Here's an SA1200S from 1981:

[TheSupposedStringMeister]

Wow, great start to my suggestion. Thanks Bill and HS.

I shall dig out my photos of SA pickups later this week

What worries me with HS' theory is that it raises the question of quality or superiority if you like. The SA2000 labeled pickups sound better than any SA1000 labeled one.

By dropping the designation, would Yamaha have also gone for a generic coil winding? If so. which one?

I suppose DC resistance readings might provide some insight. Even better if we could get the coils' induction values.

[HomerJSimpson]

If it is of any consolation (it isn't), this conundrum exists for many Japanese brand guitars of that era, Burny, Greco, Tokai... Pickups were changed, renamed or just renamed without a change or just different leads colors*, then they (Tokai a little less maybe) tried to simplify things a lot and all that with little to no documentation. The only way to really find out is disassembling the PUs comparing their innards and measuring inductance and ideally magnetic flux density too. Nobody does that, even though there seem to be ways to improvise a Gauss meter nowadays.

In case of Yamaha, if there were actual changes in the PU design they didn't even make it to the catalogs - the 1979 vs. the 1981 catalogs have basically the same text blocks saying (this is somewhat confusing OCR extraction of not very good Japanese catalog scans with Google translation):

SA-2000
carefully selected materials
Meticulous finishing down to the smallest detail
While stubbornly orthodox,
Hidden contemporary content everywhere
Semi-aco masterpiece
Miter humbucking A-1×2)
cover puna
core spruce + maple
mahogany fingerboard ebony
set neck
Spindle Yamaha die-cast torque adjustment
Strings Ernie Ball Regular Slinky
4.2kg/ ¥150,000

SA-1000
Even the nuances hidden behind the score
An unparalleled sense of unity that you will discover
exquisite sound quality
Hot support from top artists
A crossover activity that only exists
Mycoon Packing A-11×2
cover beech
core spruce + maple
mahogany fingerboard ebony
set neck
Yamaha die-cast torque adjustment knob
Genichi Ernie Ball Regular Slinky
Weight 4.1kg/¥100,000

I assume the names of the PUs are meant to be "A-1" (A-I) and "A-2 (A-II)** but whatever it is, the 1981 catalog list them the same way so they still ought to be different pickups in 1981. On the other hand we know that Yamaha was never really great with communication so they could've just copied the text from the old catalogs independent of production reality. This suspicion grows if you consider that the descriptions actually change in the 1982 catalog, which lists only "Humbucking x2" for all the guitars from SA700 to the SA2000S. It looks like the change (if there was any besides the stamps) actually happened in 1980 though. Except...to make the confusion perfect - the 1978 catalog states only "humbucking x2" as well.


* This could be the case for SA2000 PUs as well, I've seen one pair with PAF-style braided shield wires, most have plastic coated wires though.

** Taking "A-II" for "AlNiCo-2" would make some sense but "A-I" doesn't (I wouldn't know of AlNiCo-1 magnets used in any pickup). That's why I assume that's just some random monikers they gave them.

[TheSupposedStringMeister]

Interesting stuff there HS. A few more Superaxe photos of the pickups and the 'neck screw' in some cases.

First up an SA-60. I like how Yamaha consistently used the yellow wire for the neck and the green for bridge across all models

An SA-90:

SA-90.jpg (58.29 KiB) Viewed 5111 times

An SA-1000 (not mine):

Coming up pickups from another SA-1000 (mine), SA-1100 (mine), SA-2000 (mine). I just need to find them else I have to open the guitars up

[TheSupposedStringMeister]

And these two are flying towards NZ atm I hope. Very late 1979 but only showing SA. The dude I bought them from said it was from an SA2000S from 1979. Photos from Buyee at this stage.

[TheSupposedStringMeister]

Whilst we are talking about pickups here is an interesting page about Spinex
https://www.guitarsofjapan.com/post/yam ... ery-solved

Interesting indeed. Never heard one fitted with them so no idea what they sound like.

[balston11]

This has the potential to become a valuable resource maybe Leon has some info he can share
I have added a link to this thread to my SA intro page and asked people to contribute either by joining or emailing me it also provides a permanent link to the thread should it get buried at some time on page 2 or 3 etc.
I wonder if it's worth considering doing for other models maybe SG etc.
Maybe a subsection on pickups would be useful.
My page https://www.alston-family.co.uk/SA/indexsa.php

[TheSupposedStringMeister]

This has the potential to become a valuable resource maybe Leon has some info he can share
I have added a link to this thread to my SA intro page and asked people to contribute either by joining or emailing me it also provides a permanent link to the thread should it get buried at some time on page 2 or 3 etc.
I wonder if it's worth considering doing for other models maybe SG etc.
Maybe a subsection on pickups would be useful.
My page https://www.alston-family.co.uk/SA/indexsa.php

That's cool Bill, will reference this thread on my website too.
Ideally we get people to submit with DC readings. Most of the pickup photos I have, I collected from auction websites.

Leon has been very quiet recently...