Mainstage Setup

This forum covers the original Montage and the new Montage M series keyboards.

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Moonchild Norway
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Mainstage Setup

Unread post by Moonchild »

Hi,

Straight to the point: How to get superknob to work, with Local control Off?

New Yamaha user here. In the past I have been using different hardware synths and combining these with a Mainstage Rig.
Recently I have used Mainstage exclusively.
But with the New M8X I see that I can rely more on the hardware side of things, but I need some of my string, choir and sample library from mainstage. Therefore I need to blend those two together in my setup. And here comes my problem.
I have for example created a patch in mainstage that consist of:
Layer 1: Sample.wav (C0)
Layer 2: Kontakt 7 - Albion Strings (C3-C6)
Layer 3: Montage Felt Piano (D1-C6)

I have managed to connect my M8X with USB-Midi, setting up an external instrument channel strip, patch changes are working through my setlist in mainstage, and I can add EQ and post effects. But Superknob does not work - and that is much of the reason I want to integrate the Montage.

- I did have some issues with for example the Superknob did not work, which I just managed to solve with putting local control to: "On" which is not ideal.
- But that did leave me with an issue of having sound on my keys, when I change patch to a "mainstage only" patch. I did solve that by creating a silent patch on the Montage to switch to when going to these patches.
- Cannot get the Zones to work in mainstage. I can hear the piano all across from C0 to C6 regardless of the setup in Mainstage. Solving by putting local control to off, but again - now Superknob does not work.

Thanks!
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Derek Wales
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Re: Mainstage Setup

Unread post by Derek »

If Local Control is off it effectively, as I am sure you are aware, disconnects the controllers and keyboard from the Tone Generator, so no surprise that the Superknob is also disconnected

I am not a Mainstage user (Cantabile for me). So the question would be do you have a MIDI CC route through mainstage?

The assigned CC be found in Utility Mode under Settings/MIDI IO (SuperKnob CC)

I've just tried a quick test in Cantabile with Montage set to Local Off. As expected you need a route from Montage MIDI in to Montage MIDI out (from a Cantabile / Main stage perspective) for the Superknob to work.

I guess one question I have is why do you need to be in Local Off mode?
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Moonchild Norway
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Re: Mainstage Setup

Unread post by Moonchild »

Hi Derek, and thank you for your answer. :D
I have tried to make the MIDI Through connection to loop the MIDI back to Montage from Mainstage, but have not successfully found where to do that in Mainstage yet. I have used mainstage extensively for the last decade, but never implemented it with directly with External instruments.

About your question. The reason I (believe) I need the Local to be Off, is that When it is on, it does not register my layer settings (Splits) as shown in the pictures.
This may be a setting that I have overlooked. If so - feel free to guide me in the right direction. :think:

Can you in your Cantabile setup make a split with sounds from VSTs in Cantabile in the high register, and use a sound from the Montage on the low register, with Local On, without having the montage to make sound on the high register?
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Derek Wales
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Re: Mainstage Setup

Unread post by Derek »

Hi,

I have a setup described in my Gig Rack Guide - see the photo on page 3 - where a Montage M7 (classic Montage 7 in the guide) is my lower tier keyboard and a Kronso X 61 is my top tier, and then my Gig rack with a small NUC PC in running Cantabile and all my VSTs. For solo gigs, where I have a stage to myself, I may also take out my "fun keyboards" (to the right of me in this shot)

PXL_20240316_205328856_exported_632_1710634514360~2.png
All keyboards are not connected to each other, they connect in a star arrangement to the computer and Cantabile, which is acting as a MIDI hub/processor/router, which gives me a lot of flexibility.

So, specifically on the Montage, I have left it in the mode where it only transmits on MIDI channel 1, and I use Cantabile to split and layer as I wish. Sometimes I am:
  • Only using the Montage as a master keyboard - a single part performance, with the part disconnected from the keyboard
  • Layering all of the Montage keyboard with VSTs and/or Kronos
  • Split of Montage and then VSTs and/or Kronos
And sometimes I go the other way, playing the Kronos and layering the Kronos with the Montage! Sometimes a combination in both directions!

In the case of splitting the Montage, if I do not not want the Montage to sound on a range, then I edit the Montage Performance/Parts to limit the range as required. No need for local off so far.

In the Gig Rack Guide on Page 8, you can see the Cantabile screen for a song where in the middle of the screen in the input ports and routings you can see splits where
  • Route 1 is my MIDI foot controller routed to the Montage (to control the Superknob via external pedal when I have my hands full!
  • Route 2 is allowing ly to play the Kronos and layer the Montage lower registers
  • Route 3 - 6 are splits/layers where the upper registers of the Montage keyboard are playing VSTs hosted in Cantabile
  • The Montage performance for this song is programmed to only play the Montage Tone Generator in the lower registers
Hope that gives you an idea of what can be done.

That is not to say you cannot do it the way you wish with Local Off, but you will need in Mainstage to figure how to ensure the CCs (specifically the Superknob CC) are routed back to the Montage, and as I do not use Mainstage I cannot help you there. It is a doddle in Cantabile.
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Derek Cook

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mx49 Germany
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Re: Mainstage Setup

Unread post by mx49 »

There are many ways of combing the Montage/MODX with MainStage. Let's try a simple one: Add a Round Knob to the layout, set MIDI Port to Port 1 Montage, Channel to 1, Type to Absolute, Number to 95, MIDI Through to Automatic and Send Value to Port 1 Montage.
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Moonchild Norway
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Re: Mainstage Setup

Unread post by Moonchild »

Thank you Derek for your explanation of your system as whole. That is a cool setup!

MX49 - you actually solved my case! Superknob is now working.

I also managed to make the scenes work by adding a button at midi channel 92
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Derek Wales
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Re: Mainstage Setup

Unread post by Derek »

Glad you have it working, I couldn’t give you MainStage specific info, but hoped my examples would help, and of course direct experience from MX49 is going to help better. So glad you got there no matter which way.
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Derek Cook

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