Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

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Rara
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:51 pm

Saul wrote:
Tue Jun 11, 2019 2:08 pm
I think I might have asked this before but is there no way to take the display to an external screen?
I cant see that working because of the tiny resolution, 96x64 pixels

I've been studying the back half of the LCD housing with my other back light
and even modding that to fit the backlight flush on the LED side will make that
part of the back light interfere slightly with the mounting holes of the housing on
that side of the screen. Cutting 3 sides of the backlight to fit, looses some brightness
I am having my doubts now whether this can be saved at all.

Rara 0-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:07 am

Sadly no more work is being pursued on this.
Due to the difficulties with the back light and
the lcd screen this synth is no longer
repairable or usable.

Rara 0-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by parametric » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:18 am

@Saul - did you ever get any kind of answer from Casio regarding spares, or indeed "hope" as to repairability for their older Synths . . . .

@Rara - I would like to say "don't chuck it out just yet" - in case Casio comes up with something . . . . ?

(I just hate being defeated in this way - IYKWIM) :roll: :lol:

Was this item no use? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Casio-FZ-1-LCD ... 0005.m1851

I found this just now. The FZ looks to be a LOT of fun . . . . . . (Y)



para
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:30 am

parametric wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:18 am
@Saul - did you ever get any kind of answer from Casio regarding spares, or indeed "hope" as to repairability for their older Synths . . . .

@Rara - I would like to say "don't chuck it out just yet" - in case Casio comes up with something . . . . ?

(I just hate being defeated in this way - IYKWIM) :roll: :lol:

Was this item no use? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Casio-FZ-1-LCD ... 0005.m1851

I found this just now. The FZ looks to be a LOT of fun . . . . . . (Y)



para
The EL foil is a temporary solution due to the premature burnout the FZ suffers from.
Given the delicate nature of the screen I don't want to be replacing a back light every 12 months.

I wont be throwing it out, just in case (as i have with my previous SY77). I don't like to be be defeated either,
especially over something as simple as a back light. It is probably one of very few which has a working
floppy drive and the mb-10 memory expansion.

I reassembled the synth, and found the whole screen was dead due to one of the FPC's (big fat ribbon)
on the driver board end had separated more than enough to cause the text on screen to go dead.
Even though I treated this screen like delicate surgery it still was enough to damage the cable joints.
After that, I thought enough, leave it.

FZ is a fun synth, I found it was really good at some dark, aggressive and grungy sounds. put through
some cheap guitar effects pedals gave it more grunge. Then capable
of some sweet delicate little twinkle sounds with that distinct CZ colour.

Rara 0-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Saul » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:49 pm

I did check with Casio and they generally speaking only hold spares for 7 years after a product has been discontinued. So that pretty much answers the question about getting a FZ-1 backlight from Casio.

I can't help thinking there is a world of LCD displays out there and surely one of them must be a good, almost direct replacement for the one in the FZ. Perhaps we have just not found it yet?
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:39 pm

Its the very unique nature of the FZ-1 which renders it unrepairable in this respect.
Unfortunately there is nothing on the market to replace the screen with.
I live in hope one day a replacement will be available, I won't hold my breath though.

The FZ1 is not the only Casio synth to suffer issue with display replacements.
The CZ-5000 has your typical looking 16x2 LCD, there are a myriad of screens available
with every colour combination you can think of to replace the original with.

The only problem is, the character sets in a lot of after-market screens
do not match the character set in the CZ-5000. By upgrading the LCD screen, your losing
the use of the built in sequencer, in that respect turning the cz-5000 into a CZ-3000.

Rara 0-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by parametric » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:06 am

Rara wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:39 pm
Its the very unique nature of the FZ-1 which renders it unrepairable in this respect.
Unfortunately there is nothing on the market to replace the screen with.
I live in hope one day a replacement will be available, I won't hold my breath though.
Wow Rara - it looks like you have done SERIOUS research into these early Casio Boards, ((i)) ((i))
Rara wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:39 pm
The FZ1 is not the only Casio synth to suffer issue with display replacements.
The CZ-5000 has your typical looking 16x2 LCD, there are a myriad of screens available
with every colour combination you can think of to replace the original with.

The only problem is, the character sets in a lot of after-market screens
do not match the character set in the CZ-5000. By upgrading the LCD screen, your losing
the use of the built in sequencer, in that respect turning the cz-5000 into a CZ-3000.
I was completely unaware that character-set was part of the spec. of a display . . . . . :oops:

This leads me to suspect that the FZ display is/was in fact proprietry, as you suggest in the case of the CZ5000?

THAT is a pain - if true.

It would be NICE if Casio could be prevailed upon to let us see the DATA SHEET on that display to VERIFY

that we have ALL the info required to source a possible replacement . . .


I WILL throw in here - something I heard a long time ago (can't remember where) - that

a certain amount of cross-fertilisation occurs with Casio products - in as much as SOME Calculator

displays may have found their way into "other" products?

(I'm thinking some of the GRAPHICAL DISPLAY calculators)? :idea:

MAYBE - an additional avenue of inquirey . . . :confusion-confused:

Do I understand correctly that it is the BACKLIGHT that fails regularly? (NOT the display itself)?

I'm understanding that the display itself is somewhat delicate - with wires coming in on three sides . . .

I think you said that the foil is also difficult to remove, to fit a replacement backlight?

I'm returning to the possibility of a home-brew led-based back-illumination solution, although you said that

space behind the display is tight/limited . . . .

I'm wondering if the foil can be removed to give a clear view to the display, that a piece of white card

or plastic
could be positioned BELOW the display - and THAT could be illuminated by leds -

sufficiently to shine throught the display enough to illuminate IT? :confusion-confused:

Sorry this is SO long winded, but I'd really like for you to get your FZ-1 back in use . . . 8) :wink:

I would imagine there is suitable power available somewhere on the pcb to drive a few leds . . . . .

and with them lasting 100000 hrs - there should be no need to touch it again . . . . . 0-)

MAYBE . . . . . that helps? :pray:

parametric
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BRAND NEW DSDD (720k) FLOPPY DISKS FOR SALE - http://www.yamahaforums.co.uk/forum/vie ... =22&t=9217

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 am

I've done a lot of reading on the CZ's in the past.
I discovered the difference in the character sets of display when I upgraded the display
in my CZ-5000 (black on yellow). All of the special characters related to the notation are something other than
what is written in the CZ. After I saw this I tried a few other brands
of display, which I forget the names of now. all were the same or similar to those pictured
below. This does not affect the CZ101, 1000, or 3000. Does make using the sequencer
impossible

Cross fertilizing is certainly possible as the display from a FZ1 appears to be from a
graphing FX series from 1987, FX-7000 calculator IIRC ???

the display doesn't fail as frequently as the backlit does. however not being careful
with the display assembly will cause the display to fail due to the joints of the cables
on the driver board and the rear of the screen

The original back-light in the FZ is held in with a rather strong double sided tape.
thats where the issue arises from others around the world who say they've
damaged the screen from changing the EL foil.

space behind the screen itself is a tad over 1mm so there is not much room to play with.
The recess in the rear half the the LCD housing which give that space.

I wouldn't like to remove the foil from the back of the LCD as that
will more than likely take the ribbons cables with it as the foil backing
is over the ribbons. it looks to me as if a previous owner has explored
that avenue, as one of the corners looks like it was peeled back a tad.

I would really love to see my FZ running again, I really like the sound of the old
melotrons in it.

Some picture below to help illustrate the issues. first two CZ-5000 screen.
last two the FZ-1 out of the synth.


1. the top right of the screen would normally show A crochet symbol followed by and equals sign then the tempo.
IMG_0020a.jpg
IMG_0020a.jpg (59.75 KiB) Viewed 779 times

2. this image should show a crochet and a semibreve
IMG_0019a.jpg
IMG_0019a.jpg (56.81 KiB) Viewed 779 times
3. FZ-1 screen cables and board
IMG_0021a.jpg
4. FZ-1 screen cables and board
IMG_0022a.jpg

Rara 0-)

Edit: I believe I had the data sheet for CZ-5000 screen somewhere, now i am curios to compare
that to the CZ 1000 ..... :think:
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by parametric » Thu Jun 13, 2019 11:40 pm

Rara wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 am
I've done a lot of reading on the CZ's in the past.
I discovered the difference in the character sets of display when I upgraded the display
in my CZ-5000 (black on yellow). All of the special characters related to the notation are something other than
what is written in the CZ. After I saw this I tried a few other brands
of display, which I forget the names of now. all were the same or similar to those pictured
below. This does not affect the CZ101, 1000, or 3000. Does make using the sequencer
impossible
That is truly awful, Rara . . . . !

I could venture that learning to read an " ö " as an " = " IS do-able, But what a PAIN . . . :o :naughty:

. . . . . and after you've done all that work to fit a new display too . . . . . . :roll:
Rara wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 am
Cross fertilizing is certainly possible as the display from a FZ1 appears to be from a graphing FX series from 1987, FX-7000 calculator IIRC ???
Indeed so . . . take a look at this:




kinda looks the right size (to me) ?

Dare we hope that transplanting one of THOSE might do the trick . . . . . ?

Logic/common sense, WANTS me to believe that it is the same display?

Surely that would be sensible - rather than two different ones - purely logistically, surely?
Rara wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 am
the display doesn't fail as frequently as the backlit does. however not being careful with the display assembly will cause the display to fail due to the joints of the cables
on the driver board and the rear of the screen

The original back-light in the FZ is held in with a rather strong double sided tape.
thats where the issue arises from others around the world who say they've
damaged the screen from changing the EL foil.

space behind the screen itself is a tad over 1mm so there is not much room to play with.
The recess in the rear half the the LCD housing which give that space.

I wouldn't like to remove the foil from the back of the LCD as that
will more than likely take the ribbons cables with it as the foil backing
is over the ribbons. it looks to me as if a previous owner has explored
that avenue, as one of the corners looks like it was peeled back a tad.

I would really love to see my FZ running again, I really like the sound of the old
melotrons in it.
I can fully understand your reticence to mess with it, it all looks SO delicate . . . . (excellent pics BTW)

A possible approach could be the GENTLE application of a hairdryer to that double-sided tape, with some

gentle urging with tweezers, to SLOWLY tease the tape away?

That ought to be gentle enough to leave those ribbons unmolested ?

There IS a product here in the UK called "Sticky Stuff remover" that purports to remove the Goo left by sticky labels

and the like - I believe it can be applied to the FRONT of such labels, and will permeate through - allowing the label

to then be removed EASILY . . . . perhaps THAT might be of help too ? (Though isopropyl alcohol is good too)

Rara wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:03 am
Edit: I believe I had the data sheet for CZ-5000 screen somewhere, now i am curios to compare that to the CZ 1000 ..... :think:
Indeed. But it would be great to isolate the bit of the spec that refers to the CHARACTER SET of the FZ Display -

so you could actually SEARCH for that . . . .

Meantime - maybe try and buy THAT calculator and give THAT a try ?

Would be nice if Casio could confirm that the FZ-1 uses the SAME display as the FX-7000(G)

I would guess that calculator sold in 100s of thousands so there should be loads of them out there?

VERY BEST of luck if you decide to try . . . . . and DO let us know how it goes . . . . :pray:

ATB

parametric
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IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:15 am

Changing the LCD would be very difficult I'd imagine. I wont there. it scares me :scared-yipes:
To give you some idea, the photo below is a close up of a section of one of the ribbons.
I knew the tracks where tiny, this is crazy tiny 8O (nifty app on my phone called magnifier :clap: )
looking at image 3 above this is the first cable on the left.
This is only showing half of the ribbon which is 6cm wide, there's 3 of them.

Being able to match up the ribbon to the tracks on the LCD wouldn't be easy.
the tracks look like hair width wide
The biggest problem I find is the cable joints on the circuit board.

20190614_171048.jpg

I am also reminded of a minor incompatibility with newhaven screens on an SY77 (Going off on a slight tangent here)
below is the original test mode screen (taken of my new SY77). my other dead SY77 has the new haven white on blue
where there is normally a "space" between characters for the text in test mode, the space on a newhaven screen
is filled with other obscure characters.

I cant show this as my other SY77 is dead, and swapping screens over to
demonstrate this would be an all night job, literally. Perhaps someone with the newhaven "cool blue"
could take a picture of their test mode screen to show the difference? this SY77 is firmware 1.20 if that makes any difference.
IMG_0023a.jpg
IMG_0023a.jpg (86.75 KiB) Viewed 743 times
Hair dryers work for everything :dance: :D
For the sticky stuff remover, I've used white spirits and a cotton swab on small parts.
There is bound to be a solution somewhere....

Rara 0-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Miks » Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:57 am

A while ago I have successfully 'repaired' a TAN number generator who's display suffered from some 'missing' pixel rows. I took a small piece of Kapton to protect the foil ribbon and carefully ironed over the contacts at the display - that treatment successfully brought back all pixels! (Y)

Maybe this procedure could be of help in this case too? I would try to iron the contacts on both sides - display and pcb.
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500,
TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), DataBlade32 (1x),
WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:13 am

Miks wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:57 am
A while ago I have successfully 'repaired' a TAN number generator who's display suffered from some 'missing' pixel rows. I took a small piece of Kapton to protect the foil ribbon and carefully ironed over the contacts at the display - that treatment successfully brought back all pixels! (Y)

Maybe this procedure could be of help in this case too? I would try to iron the contacts on both sides - display and pcb.
Great idea, sounds simple enough. what temperature would you suggest for the iron? I've not heard of Kapton before
I'm sure that'll be easy to get (just had a quick search). I'll find something to practice on before I commit to the FZ.

Rara 0-)
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Miks » Fri Jun 14, 2019 11:54 am

Rara wrote:
Fri Jun 14, 2019 10:13 am
Great idea, sounds simple enough. what temperature would you suggest for the iron?
Hmmm - IIRC the iron was set to 'Cotton'... but the ironing itself shouldn't last too long 8O
I've not heard of Kapton before. I'm sure that'll be easy to get (just had a quick search).
It's a high-temperature, self-adhesive tape. There are many of those tapes on offer, but I would definitely go for the genuine Kapton tape!
I'll find something to practice on before I commit to the FZ.
Good idea and absolutely recommended (Y)
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500,
TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), DataBlade32 (1x),
WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade
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Re: Upgrading and restoring Casio FZ-1

Unread post by Rara » Fri Jun 14, 2019 1:04 pm

Thanks for that, this seems top be a more promising outlook. :)

Rara 0-)
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