DGX-660...?

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pologuy
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DGX-660...?

Unread post by pologuy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 5:10 pm

As it seems that I am in a "holding pattern" so to speak - and waiting to see if there will be a new MOXF replacement (and it appears quite possibly new JBL monitor speakers) announced at NAMM at the end of January...

I am looking for a two month (or a few months longer if something is announced at NAMM) "filler" keyboard - especially for the holidays.

I am trying to get the "cheapest" keyboard that still sounds good and has all of the sounds I like/need - without losing a lot of money when I sell it after the two+ months.

So - enter the DCX-660...

Just have a few questions -

Is the included stand sturdy?

What is the difference between the Grand Piano voices - and the Grand Piano (XG) voices?

Can you use the DGX-660 with a piano VST like Garritan Abbey Roads Yamaha CFX or VI Labs Ravenscroft 275 – and have the sound come through the DGX-660’s speakers?

Thanks!

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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by Saul » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:24 pm

Interesting choice!

You know there is a Yamaha MOXF6 on Ebay at the moment with a buy it now of £770 but will accept best offer?
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/710-5348 ... SwdJ9aGsPd

You could probably get that for the same price as the DGX-660.

But to answer your questions. First I am pretty sure you could use the Aux In to take audio from your pc/mac running the VST's and feed that out through the speakers of the DGX. That's not guaranteed though, I'm just assuming anything coming in through that connection would also be fed to the speakers.

XG is Yamaha's extended version of General MIDI. They added a lot more voices to the standard set of 128 as well as more control options. In terms of sound though I can't say it makes a huge difference.

As for the fabled MOXF replacement? Absolutely nothing coming out of Yamaha at the moment but I have a sneaking suspicion they do have something because normally when there is a new bit of kit like this in the offing we are usually met with a wall of silence. I'm hoping that's the case anyway.
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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:24 pm

The normal XG Grand Piano voice is 0-0-0 (those are the Bank Select MSB-LSB and Program Change numbers), so it's equivalent to GM1 Acoustic Grand Piano. There are also a few other XG piano voices, such as Stereo or KSP (Key Scale Panning), Bright, Honky-tonk, etc.

The other Grand Piano voice is what's usually called a "panel" voice. I'm not really certain what a "panel" voice is, but a keyboard's panel voices are usually better-sounding than its XG voices. On a Yamaha keyboard, the panel voices are usually listed first, with the XG voices "bringing up the rear" as it were. Casio does the same thing-- puts the higher-quality voices first, and the GM voices last. On my PSR-E models, the XGlite voices sound rather thin or weak, probably partly because XGlite voices use only 1 voice element (as opposed to models that can use 2 or more elements per voice), but perhaps also because the presets for the XGlite voices seem to turn the Channel Volume way down, whereas some of the panel voices tend to have a much higher Channel Volume setting.

Anyway, the DGX-660's primary Grand Piano voice uses a different/better type of sound sampling than the usual AWM2, called "PureCF" (whatever that means). So that's the one you'd want to use most of the time, although you could try the XG Grand Piano-- and turn up its Channel Volume to a decent level-- to get a different piano sound if you wanted.
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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by Saul » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:01 pm

The 'Pure CF' just refers to samples from Yamaha's flagship Grand Piano range.

One thing I did think of. It will be a LOT easier to re-sell a DGX than a MOXF. The market for these keyboards is much larger than for synths like MOXF.
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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by pologuy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:24 pm

Saul wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:24 pm
Interesting choice!
That's one set of words for it, lol. :)
Saul wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:24 pm
But to answer your questions. First I am pretty sure you could use the Aux In to take audio from your pc/mac running the VST's and feed that out through the speakers of the DGX. That's not guaranteed though, I'm just assuming anything coming in through that connection would also be fed to the speakers.
I "assume" it would play the piano sounds through the DGX speakers - but I have learned (the hard way more than once) never to assume anything.
Saul wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:24 pm
As for the fabled MOXF replacement? Absolutely nothing coming out of Yamaha at the moment but I have a sneaking suspicion they do have something because normally when there is a new bit of kit like this in the offing we are usually met with a wall of silence. I'm hoping that's the case anyway.
Here is hoping!
SeaGtGruff wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:24 pm

The other Grand Piano voice is what's usually called a "panel" voice. I'm not really certain what a "panel" voice is, but a keyboard's panel voices are usually better-sounding than its XG voices. On a Yamaha keyboard, the panel voices are usually listed first, with the XG voices "bringing up the rear" as it were. On my PSR-E models, the XGlite voices sound rather thin or weak, probably partly because XGlite voices use only 1 voice element (as opposed to models that can use 2 or more elements per voice), but perhaps also because the presets for the XGlite voices seem to turn the Channel Volume way down, whereas some of the panel voices tend to have a much higher Channel Volume setting.

Anyway, the DGX-660's primary Grand Piano voice uses a different/better type of sound sampling than the usual AWM2, called "PureCF" (whatever that means). So that's the one you'd want to use most of the time...
Thanks!
Saul wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:01 pm
One thing I did think of. It will be a LOT easier to re-sell a DGX than a MOXF. The market for these keyboards is much larger than for synths like MOXF.
Exactly my thinking - especially if there is a new MOXF replacement announced.

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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by pologuy » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:38 pm

Saul wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:24 pm
Interesting choice!
I was very apprehensive about getting the (cheaper) DGX-660...

All of the YouTube videos I listened to really sounded not so good.

Until I found this "kids" YouTube videos - and he even states in the comments section his settings are: "Natural Grand, 86 Main Reverb. Yamaha keyboards usually need manual reverb to sound better."

He may have a little too much reverb - but his point is valid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ynz98iBh9qw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEUQWpM4ntg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xVhpLcP6IM


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9iTA0ssSK4

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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by SeaGtGruff » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:58 pm

Another possible consideration is that you might be able to pick up a used DGX-660, DGX-650, DGX-640, etc. at a good bargain. The DGX-660 would be the best of the lot, but the older models aren't too bad:

DGX-660 (2015) - 192-note polyphony - 151 panel voices - 15 kits - 388 XGlite voices - 42 reverb types - 45 chorus types - 239 DSP types
DGX-650 (2013) - 128-note polyphony - 147 panel voices - 15 kits - 381 XGlite voices - 36 reverb types - 45 chorus types - 239 DSP types
DGX-640 (2010) - 64-note polyphony - 142 panel voices - 12 kits - 381 XGlite voices - 36 reverb types - 45 chorus types - 239 DSP types
DGX-630/YPG-635 (2007) - 64-note polyphony - 130 panel voices - 12 kits - 361 XGlite voices - 30 reverb types - 25 chorus types - 183 DSP types
DGX-620/YPG-625 (2005) - 32-note polyphony - 127 panel voices - 12 kits - 361 XGlite voices - 10/13 reverb types - 5/8 chorus types

The year is taken from the MIDI Implementation Chart, and reflects when the model was being prepared/finalized for market, hence it might not have been announced/released until the following year.

The number of reverb types and chorus types includes the "no effect" option, so the actual number is 1 less than shown, plus "no effect."

For the DGX-620, the number of reverb types and chorus types reflects the number which can be selected via the panel, versus the number which can be selected via MIDI.

The DSP effects include all of the reverb types and chorus types, plus additional effect types.

The number of DSP types includes both the "no effect" option and the "thru" option, which are essentially equivalent to each other, so the actual number is 2 less than shown, plus "no effect," plus "thru."

The DGX-620 doesn't have the DSP effect option, so it has only reverb and chorus system effects, not DSP insertion effects.
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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by Saul » Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:16 pm

Videos were nice. Definitely a bit heavy on the reverb for me but of course you can alter these things to taste.

I would agree that a certain amount of reverb is often need to bring the acoustic piano presets "alive" but that is of course not confined to Yamaha.

The DGX 660 is an excellent keyboard. Probably not my first choice if I were looking at a stop gap before the fabled MOXF replacement but it's a quality instrument and as has been mentioned you won't find it hard to re-sell at a later date.
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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by pologuy » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:27 pm

Saul wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:16 pm
Probably not my first choice if I were looking at a stop gap before the fabled MOXF replacement...
OK, I'll bite :)

What would be your choice(s)?

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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by Saul » Tue Dec 05, 2017 10:14 pm

pologuy wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:27 pm
Saul wrote:
Tue Dec 05, 2017 5:16 pm
Probably not my first choice if I were looking at a stop gap before the fabled MOXF replacement...
OK, I'll bite :)

What would be your choice(s)?
Ahh now there's a question ;)

Ok well for me I don't need an 88 note keyboard so the choices open out...if we're talking about the same money as a DGX-660?

There's the Korg Kross 61 MK11 at £689 which is a fantastic update on the original.

Roland DS61 at £529

Native Instruments Kontol S61 (new version) £529 and comes with Komplete 11 Select

The latter is of course a controller but the power in even Komplete Select is immense and certainly the pianos are better than anything built into the DGX.

IF I were going for a stop gap 88 note keyboard I would spend a little extra on the Native Instruments S88 because it has greater longevity than a hardware synth. The keys are superb, the interface is fantastic and the power in the software leaves hardware synths for dust. That quality and power don't fade with time either. So IF you were to sell it is the one you would lose the least money on.

Anyway that's my 2 or 3 cents. Probably doesn't suite your situation but all these things are worth discussing I think :)
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Re: DGX-660...?

Unread post by pologuy » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:15 pm

Thanks!

Everything is worth discussing, lol

Yeah... it has to be 88 keys... :)

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