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Noise over Clavinova AUX in

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clavifan Spain
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

parametric wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:14 pm I'm starting to think that the M-Audio has a problem with it.

Try again with the previous arrangement (when it is TOO LOUD) . . .

WHILE it is too loud, turn down each <Level> control on the M-Audio . . . . PERHAPS you've not noticed that ONE of them is at full volume . . . . ?

If that makes no difference . . . . .

What happens if you feed the Clavinova from the HEADPHONE output of the M-Audio?

You'll need a 6.3mm to 3.5mm adaptor plug.

Plug a "3.5mm jack to two phono plugs" lead in to it - and plug the phonos to the Optional IN of the Clavinova.

You then have CONTROL of the level from the M-Audio (knob 14 in the manual) . . .

You should NOT have to do this to get clear sound.

If adjusting the levels on the M-Audio DONESN'T solve the issue - I am guessing there is something wrong with the M-Audio Box . . .

If you have ANY OTHER equipment, a radio or a cassette machine with phono OUTS on it, TRY them into the Clavinova and check for clear sound . . . .

If the Sound is CLEAR - then I would say the Clavinova is NOT the problem . . . .

parametric
The levels where at the minim. I can probe the headphones output from M-Audio. Yesterday I probed my smartphone with the "3.5mm jack to two phono plugs" and always had to have the source volume at the minim; static noise too present.

I think the problem is something related with the Clavinova input. Nobody has an old CVP whit the same RCA input to test?
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by parametric »

I guess you have Music on your phone . . and this still distorts through the Clavinova . . . ?

As you say, maybe the Clavinova inputs?

Try again, with both Jacks, and then phonos - and, while the distortion occurs - apply a little PRESSURE, side to side, and up and down to the plugs at the Clavinova input . . . .

If the problem CLEARS in a certain position, then you might need to re-solder the sockets of the Clavinova, due to a bad joint . .

Often, just remelting the solder is sufficient to fix this . . . .

Could look like this:

solderfractures.jpg
solderfractures.jpg (180.96 KiB) Viewed 2718 times

parametric
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Curse! This means the end of the horned gramophone and the little doggie that looks in to it.

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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

parametric wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:35 pm I guess you have Music on your phone . . and this still distorts through the Clavinova . . . ?

As you say, maybe the Clavinova inputs?

Try again, with both Jacks, and then phonos - and, while the distortion occurs - apply a little PRESSURE, side to side, and up and down to the plugs at the Clavinova input . . . .

If the problem CLEARS in a certain position, then you might need to re-solder the sockets of the Clavinova, due to a bad joint . .

Often, just remelting the solder is sufficient to fix this . . . .

Could look like this:


solderfractures.jpg


parametric
I will revise again, but some days ago I disassembly the input and outputs box from Clavinova and all was in order, no bad soldering, visually nothing wrong.

I remember the "Phono" inputs in the past amplifiers having some equalizer and preamplifying instead the rest of inputs (AUX, CD,...). Maybe the Clavinova has any pre-amp or something "rare" in this "Optional RCA inputs"?
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by Saul »

Looks like this is going to be one of the "process of elimination" type problems and if experience teaches anything it is usually the simplest of things that solves it.

I think we need to look at it this way. If EVERY device you plug into the "OPTIONAL INPUTS" causes the same issue then the highest probability is that the fault lays within the Clavinova. What are the chances that everything you plug in would have a fault?

IF we know the connecting cables are good i.e you have tried the same cables to connect other devices and everything has been fine then the only possible conclusion is either there is a setting for the inputs that we are no aware of...which I doubt or there is a hardware fault in the Clavinova. The only possible "setting" would be to limit the volume or gain of the incoming signal but then surely that would be listed in the manual?

If there is no such setting then we are down to the hardware. As Chris mentioned, it could be a bad solder joint. You may not see this with a visual inspection. If it were me I would re-solder those joints anyway..just to eliminate them from the list of possibilities. Remember this is a process of elimination here?

So once we have established that all the devices that you are trying to connect are fine. The cables are fine and the connecting joints on the connections are solid and reliable what comes next?
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

Saul wrote: Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:38 pm Looks like this is going to be one of the "process of elimination" type problems and if experience teaches anything it is usually the simplest of things that solves it.

I think we need to look at it this way. If EVERY device you plug into the "OPTIONAL INPUTS" causes the same issue then the highest probability is that the fault lays within the Clavinova. What are the chances that everything you plug in would have a fault?

IF we know the connecting cables are good i.e you have tried the same cables to connect other devices and everything has been fine then the only possible conclusion is either there is a setting for the inputs that we are no aware of...which I doubt or there is a hardware fault in the Clavinova. The only possible "setting" would be to limit the volume or gain of the incoming signal but then surely that would be listed in the manual?

If there is no such setting then we are down to the hardware. As Chris mentioned, it could be a bad solder joint. You may not see this with a visual inspection. If it were me I would re-solder those joints anyway..just to eliminate them from the list of possibilities. Remember this is a process of elimination here?

So once we have established that all the devices that you are trying to connect are fine. The cables are fine and the connecting joints on the connections are solid and reliable what comes next?
All revised... soldering points, etc... Same history.

Maybe something like this? https://www.av-connection.com/?PGr=8981
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by parametric »

Maybe something like this? https://www.av-connection.com/?PGr=8981
I am skeptical that the Clavinova would require such a complicated connector to achieve such a simple requirement as connecting a line level source to a line level input.

The problem is elsewhere IMO.

I have no more suggestions. Perhaps some others in here would care to have a stab at it?

parametric
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Curse! This means the end of the horned gramophone and the little doggie that looks in to it.

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by Saul »

I don't think I would spend 40 euro on something that you should actually not need. All these will do is attenuate the signal, which surely is pretty much the same as turning the volume down on the device your connecting?

There must be another solution to this issue. Will do a bit more digging and see what I can find out.
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

Time to return to the problem...
On "Yamaha DOM-30 Disk Orchestra Module" manual, designed for the Clavinova's "Optional In" says that the RCA Line Out has this specifications:

Any clue with this info? This specs are different from any other domestic audio sources?
Thanks
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by parametric »

IF I am understanding that spec. correctly . . . . . +4dbM is a PRO level output . . which surprises me on such a Unit

(which I would consider NOT to be aimed at the PRO Market) - with all due respect to Yamaha . . . . .

Additionally, I would NOT expect +4dbM to be delivered by PHONO sockets. Pro Level requires TRS Jacks.

Pro Gear operates at this level for reasons of HIGHER SIGNAL goes hand in hand with lower NOISE.

Consumer Units operate at the lower level of -10dbM - (as consumer HiFi components do),

and I would consider the DOM30 to be a "Consumer Unit" . .

If this is the scenario, then the DOM would OVERLOAD the I/P of the Clavinova -

IF INDEED its I/P are expecting -10dbM.

Perhaps this explains the distortion you are experiencing?

To me, it makes no sense to declare a unit "suitable for use with" the Clavinova,

if the Calvinova's I/Ps are NOT equipped to deal with it . . . .

Perhaps Yamaha would care to comment?

Or anyone?

parametric
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Curse! This means the end of the horned gramophone and the little doggie that looks in to it.

Watch out now! take care, BEWARE of the greedy leaders! They'll take you where you should not go - (George Harrison)

IT'S TRUE - "MONEY TALKS" - TO ME, IT MOSTLY SAYS "GOODBYE" ;-)
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

parametric,

I don't have this DOM-30 but clearly says that it's designed for Clavinova "optional in".
Mine is MU-90 Tone Generator but not specs on the manual about their RCA line out. MU-90 is not on the Yamaha Clavinova manual because is a newer product.

So now we have some info: a product designed for this "optional in" with +4 dBm and the input with -10 dBm spec.
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by Saul »

Well I wouldn't hang on for Yamaha to comment. They seem to be in a permanent state of "busy" All preparing for NAMM (read jolly for the boys) where no doubt they will be announcing something magnificent..to them anyway ;)

Although we would reasonably think the inputs on the Clav should accept just about anything we do know from past experience that Yamaha implement the most bizarre things for no apparently good reason, or at least not one they want to share with their customers.
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

I'll promise an inside photo of the plastic box that contain the inputs and outputs.
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

Not the best photo, sorry.
What it is the three elements from red circle?
Any new clue?
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by Miks »

Most likely coils for noise and/or radio interference suppression...
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Re: Noise over Clavinova AUX in

Unread post by clavifan »

Miks wrote: Wed Jan 17, 2018 11:18 pm Most likely coils for noise and/or radio interference suppression...
8O It's like a joke, because I have a lot of noise!
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