Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

This section is dedicated to players of electric guitar. From beginner to expert and all in between. Everyone is welcome here.

Moderators: Buzzard, Derek, parametric, Saul

User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:45 pm

I think this is the salient lesson to be drawn from all of this. If you want a Gibson and you are spending a lot of money on one then make the effort to go to a store, try it out and choose the particular guitar you want. You can then be sure you are getting a superb guitar that you will be very happy with for years to come.

Personally I would never buy an acoustic guitar I had not tried first no matter how much or little it cost and were I looking for an electric guitar I would go through the same process of trying out different guitars and choosing the one I want.

Gibson really need to up their game though. If they want to maintain "premium brand" status they need to show that they are all over quality control and that not a single guitar will leave their facility with any issues at all present.
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
User avatar
jens5
Member
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:59 pm
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by jens5 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 5:46 pm

Saul wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:45 pm
I think this is the salient lesson to be drawn from all of this. If you want a Gibson and you are spending a lot of money on one then make the effort to go to a store, try it out and choose the particular guitar you want. You can then be sure you are getting a superb guitar that you will be very happy with for years to come.

Personally I would never buy an acoustic guitar I had not tried first no matter how much or little it cost and were I looking for an electric guitar I would go through the same process of trying out different guitars and choosing the one I want.
While I agree in principle, that one should try to play as many as possible, so as to find the right one. The problem with that approach as it relates to Gibson is that Gibson has all but eliminated the smaller retailer. There are really only a handful of authorized Gibson dealers left in the US that carry multiples of a particular model. Given my location, I would have to drive or fly to a location that had a variety of instruments to choose from and I am by no means in the sticks so to speak. So, one just can't go to a store and try several Gibson’s, like some other brands. As far as Acoustics, the only brand I would be willing to trust without playing first is a Collings. I own 3 of them. A dreadnaught, which I did play before purchase. An OM 41 which was sent to me from Nashville to tryout and a recent Collings semi-hollow electric which I bought sight unseen because the QC on these instruments is so consistently outstanding that I and others, have never seen or heard of one that wasn't fantastic.
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Wed Feb 14, 2018 7:35 pm

Ok well let's rephrase that..IF your in the UK definitely go to a store and try one first ;)

We're very lucky here Richard. We have Andertons in Guildford who are a Gibson main dealer and stock and enormous range, probably the largest in the UK. They are just 25 miles from me. Then there is GuitarGuitar.co.uk who have stores around the country. Again they are a main stockist of Gibson and certainly their Epsom store...20 miles away has a huge range to choose from.

A little further afield is PMT Music (35 miles) and further out still there is Coda who are another big stockist of Gibson. So no shortage of great stores near me but then the UK is a fraction of the size of the USA and Canada so distances between stores there is going to be pretty monumental. I still think I would drive to wherever it was to choose a guitar for myself. Just make a road trip of it ;)

With Acoustic guitars I have never ordered one online. All the guitars that I have here right now were sent for testing and review so no risk to me but happy to say they all arrived in perfect condition :)

Oh those two Dowina guitars I think I mentioned previously turned up yesterday. Probably the best acoustic guitars I have seen and played in a very long time. Incredibly well made...all hand made too. So well finished and the tone from both is superb. The sort of guitars you just never want to put down...but I think Collings are the same from what I have read?
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
User avatar
jens5
Member
Member
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 4:59 pm
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by jens5 » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:47 pm

Oh those two Dowina guitars I think I mentioned previously turned up yesterday. Probably the best acoustic guitars I have seen and played in a very long time. Incredibly well made...all hand made too. So well finished and the tone from both is superb. The sort of guitars you just never want to put down...but I think Collings are the same from what I have read?
I'll have to look up Dowina guitars as I've not heard of them. Thanks for the heads up Saul.
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:22 am

They are wonderful guitars Richard. I think they only have one dealer in the USA at the moment https://goldenmusic.co but I think you will be hearing a lot more of Dowina in the not too distant future.
IMG_3402.jpg
The Dowina Chardonnay is an all solid wood guitar:
  • Solid Dolomite Spruce top
  • Solid American Walnut back and sides
  • Ebony fingerboard and bridge
  • Buffalo bone nut & saddle
  • Grover Machine Heads
  • Abalone fretboard inlays
  • Abalone detailing on bridge pins
  • Open Pore Finish
The Dowina Rustica is Solid top with layered back and sides:
  • Solid Canadian Cedar Top
  • Layered Mahogany Back & Sides
  • Mahogany Neck
  • Rosewood fretboard and bridge
  • Buffalo bone nut & saddle
  • Open Pore Finish
Will be doing a full review of both soon but Dowina are also sending me their Cabernet Dreadnaught, which is again an all solid guitar so might wait for that and do all three in one video.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
User avatar
JDZ
Member
Member
Posts: 33
Joined: Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:51 am
United States of America

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by JDZ » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:18 pm

Gibson ‘running out of time — rapidly’
https://www.nashvillepost.com/business/ ... me-rapidly
Company faces big debt deadlines; CFO exits after less than a year

authors Geert De Lombaerde

“Gibson Brands, Inc. today announced that the company made a $16.6 million coupon payment to holders of its $375 million, 8.875% senior secured notes due 2018.”

That simple statement issued a week ago — at all of 26 words, it’s less than a quarter the length of Gibson’s boilerplate company description that accompanied it — suggests a business-as-usual tone of a company taking care of its contractual commitments.

But the situation facing the iconic Nashville-based music instrument maker, which has annual revenues of more than $1 billion, is far from normal: CFO Bill Lawrence recently left the company after less than a year on the job and just six months before $375 million of senior secured notes will mature. On top of that, another $145 million in bank loans will come due immediately if those notes, issued in 2013, are not refinanced by July 23.

Less than six months out from those crucial deadlines, the prospects for an orderly refinancing — Gibson has hired investment bank Jefferies to help with that — look slim, observers say. And the alternative scenarios look likely to sideline longtime owner and CEO Henry Juszkiewicz.

“At the end of the day, someone will take control of this company — be it the debtors or the bondholders,” Debtwire reporter Reshmi Basu told the Post this week. “This has been a long time coming.”

Basu said some bondholders have complained about a lack of clarity from Gibson — a situation that has not improved by the arrival of GSO Capital Partners, a unit of private equity giant Blackstone that about a year ago extended Gibson a lifeline via $130 million in loans. Basu told the Post GSO’s arrival on the scene has unsettled some bondholders, who have organized and hired financial and legal advisors to protect their interests.

Kevin Cassidy, a senior credit officer at Moody’s Investors Service, says Juszkiewicz essentially has just three options: He and his team could negotiate an exchange of their debt coming due for new notes, which may not be feasible at a reasonable price. He also could be persuaded — or forced — to give up some of his equity in exchange for the debt payments. Or he may end up taking one of the most globally recognized brands that calls Nashville home to bankruptcy court.

“This year is critical and they are running out of time — rapidly,” said Cassidy, who last summer downgraded Gibson’s debt rating. “And if this ends in bankruptcy, he will give up the entire company.”

Attempts to reach Gibson executives via a spokesman this week were not successful.

The company recently gave itself a bit of breathing room by selling a former Baldwin Piano warehouse in The Gulch for $6.4 million. It also is trying to sell the nearby Valley Arts building on Church Street, although that deal has landed in court. But those sales — the Valley Arts property will bring in about $11 million — are unlikely to make a big enough dent to stave off a painful overhaul.

Gibson needs to report by next week its final numbers for its fiscal third quarter to stakeholders. One thing bond owners will be watching for is an improvement in the company’s electronics business, which has been built up in the past few years via debt-fueled acquisitions but has seen sales slump of late.

Still, even a solid turnaround on that front won’t be enough for Juszkiewicz to avoid difficult conversations.

“Some type of restructuring will be necessary,” Cassidy said. “The core business is a very stable business, and a sustainable one. But you have a balance sheet problem and an operational problem.”
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:55 pm

I was just reading that on Google News. I reckon they will lumber on for a while yet but there will come a point when although the core business is a good one the financing behind it can no longer be sustained.

I doubt we will see the end of the 'Gibson' brand as there is bound to be a buyer for it. Just hopefully any new buyer does not carry over the existing management team.
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
Cuthbert
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:03 am
Italy

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Cuthbert » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:03 am

I don't think the problem is the guitar business, but Henry's "bright" investments in the last years.

The guy must leave.
Saul wrote:
Thu Feb 15, 2018 12:22 am
They are wonderful guitars Richard. I think they only have one dealer in the USA at the moment https://goldenmusic.co but I think you will be hearing a lot more of Dowina in the not too distant future.

IMG_3402.jpg

The one of the right looks a lot like a Furch...I would be curious to try it but I don't think they can be found here.
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Fri Feb 16, 2018 1:33 am

They do have a certain 'Furch' look and feel to them.

I know Dowina have a distributor in Italy but not sure about dealers. Might be worth dropping them an email?

Porto Recanati
Frenexport S.P.A. – Via Enzo Ferrari, 10
62017 Porto Recanati (Mc) Italy
www.frenexport.it
danilo.vecchi@frenexport.it
VAT Nr 00260710439
Tel: +39 071 7595011
Fax. +39 071-7595099″
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
User avatar
Asmikace
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:13 pm

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Asmikace » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:15 pm

With all talks of Gibson getting taken over taken over by investment bankers, maybe the value of good quality Gibson guitars be in serious demand like late 50s Les Pauls?
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:18 pm

Asmikace wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:15 pm
With all talks of Gibson getting taken over taken over by investment bankers, maybe the value of good quality Gibson guitars be in serious demand like late 50s Les Pauls?
I can certainly see prices increasing on original Gibson guitars but then most people would probably not want to part with them?

It's not like there is a shortage of good Gibson's out there though. The quality control issues have always been present but there are far more good ones than bad.
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
Cuthbert
Member
Member
Posts: 21
Joined: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:03 am
Italy

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Cuthbert » Sun Feb 18, 2018 2:16 am

Asmikace wrote:
Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:15 pm
With all talks of Gibson getting taken over taken over by investment bankers, maybe the value of good quality Gibson guitars be in serious demand like late 50s Les Pauls?
It's a matter of supply and demand, from 1954 to 1960 Gibson made 1912 Les Paul Customs, the total number of Sunbursts from 1958 to 1960 was 1712, therefore they were rare guitars then (they were discontinued because they weren't very popular, almost all rock'n'rollers used Stratocaster back then), then there is the mythology around those instruments.

Besides that, in terms of quality Les Pauls from the 70s are pretty poor as they used very heavy wood, they improved in 1986 and IMO the Les Pauls of the 90s were very good instruments, it started to went downhill in the second half of the 2000s with all the chambered models, the proliferation of new stuff like Traditional, Antique etc..and Henry's decision to promore the Custom shop instruments as the only ones good enough.
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Sun Feb 18, 2018 12:44 pm

I can see why Henry decided to concentrate on the custom shop models though. Bigger profits for less cost...or that would have been the case but apparently things got away from him and now it looks like Gibson are in serious financial soup!

Looks like at the moment Gibson are trying to raise cash by issuing law suits against anyone who makes anything remotely 'Gibson' like.

I was just reading that they are going after a luthier named Dallas Seger who works out of Bangor (US State of Maine). They say that two of his guitars, the YG and the V violate the trademarks of two of their models, the SG body, and the Flying V body and headstock.

They asked the guy to not only stop making them but also pay a settlement on the ones he has sold.
Seger SG.png
Seger has removed the 'V' from sale but says the SG is entirely his own design and will stay.

Of course Gibson has sent similar letters to a several guitar makers of various sizes over the years including U.K.-based John Henry Skewes, which took Gibson to court and had an $8 million lawsuit dismissed in Oct. 2016. Most recently, in Dec. 2017 Gibson sued vinyl toy maker FUNKO Pop over usage of alleged likenesses of its guitars in figurines of members of Metallica, KISS and Guns n’ Roses, claiming it did not have permission to use the designs.

I understand any brand needs to protect it's IP but sometimes they take it to extremes and with Gibson's current financial situation their litigation dept seems to be very busy indeed!
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
User avatar
Asmikace
Member
Member
Posts: 111
Joined: Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:13 pm

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Asmikace » Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:30 pm

Considering how small these guitar luthiers are and how little they take up in market, Gibson is pretty much going nowhere in their legal endeavors. These little firms are not the Japanese copy hoard or the PRS upstart that could compete with them seriously in the market. In fact, I think its doing the opposite giving these smaller guitar companies attention with the all the news articles and showing people their beautiful guitars. I really dig those Seger doublecuts!
User avatar
Saul
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 8600
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2004 1:00 am
Contact:
Ireland

Re: Gibson Guitars - Poor Quality and High Prices

Unread post by Saul » Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:11 pm

Agreed, it gives publicity to the smaller guitar makers which is no bad thing in my book.

That Seger actually reminds me more of a Yamaha SG than a Gibson ;)

Funny thing, Gibson recently got their lawyers onto a guy who runs a YouTube channel here in the UK called 'ChinaGuitarSceptic' which is all about why NOT to buy a fake Gibson, Martin etc from China however by targeting the guy all they have done is raised the profile of his channel and at the same time let people know that they CAN, theoretically buy a fake Gibson if they wanted to...I wouldn't but there are plenty who would.

Companies have to protect their IP but in the case of Seger guitars I think they have taken it too far and I don't think they will win if they take the guy to court. What Gibson SHOULD be doing is spending what little money they have on increasing quality control rather than lining the pockets of lawyers.
Saul
Site Admin
Review Yamahamusicians.com on Trustpilot
Sign up to the Newsletter
Follow us on Twitter @YamahaMusicians
Follow Us On Facebook
Original Scarab On Facebook
Dowina Chardonnay/Dowina Rustica/Seagull S6 Original/Harley Benton CLA-15MCE/Roland FA-07/Pianoteq 6 Pro/Amplitube 3.0/Apple iMac 27"/GarageBand 10.0.3/Logic Pro X/Cubase AI 9/Absynth 5/Ableton Live 9/KRK Rokit RP5 G3 Monitors
Website Design & Managed Hosting www.rabbittree.uk
Post Reply

Return to “Electric Guitar, Amps & Effects”