No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

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No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Sun May 06, 2018 7:37 pm

The 21st-century tech revolution is transforming human lives across the globe
transhumanism.png
Transhumanism
The aims of the transhumanist movement are summed up by Mark O’Connell in his book To Be a Machine, which last week won the Wellcome Book prize. “It is their belief that we can and should eradicate ageing as a cause of death; that we can and should use technology to augment our bodies and our minds; that we can and should merge with machines, remaking ourselves, finally, in the image of our own higher ideals.”

The idea of technologically enhancing our bodies is not new. But the extent to which transhumanists take the concept is. In the past, we made devices such as wooden legs, hearing aids, spectacles and false teeth. In future, we might use implants to augment our senses so we can detect infrared or ultraviolet radiation directly or boost our cognitive processes by connecting ourselves to memory chips. Ultimately, by merging man and machine, science will produce humans who have vastly increased intelligence, strength, and lifespans; a near embodiment of gods.

Is that a desirable goal? Advocates of transhumanism believe there are spectacular rewards to be reaped from going beyond the natural barriers and limitations that constitute an ordinary human being. But to do so would raise a host of ethical problems and dilemmas. As O’Connell’s book indicates, the ambitions of transhumanism are now rising up our intellectual agenda. But this is a debate that is only just beginning.

The rest of the article is in The Guardian but would be very interested to hear others thoughts on this?

I have no doubt that US inventor and entrepreneur Ray Kurzweil is correct when he says humans will free themselves of all corporeal restraints and that the turning point for this will be reached by 2030 when biotechnology will enable a union between humans and genuinely intelligent computers and AI systems.

I guess the real question is not whether this will happen, because it invariably will but, would you want it?
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by purcell » Mon May 07, 2018 2:48 am

We shall be 10 billion people! ... without the possible last nuclear war.
Due to the overpopulation and lack of water and food ... unimaginable conditions will prevail here.

What is a human? A brain - with a machine around it - the body.
In the next generation, running, moving, eating and drinking are no longer possible or necessary.

A brain on a chip ... is a human then?...does not need a place. needs almost nothing.
And it lives.
However, it would have to be exactly adapted to this "chip world"!
What does not fit ... disappears. Might as well apply.
Also, the brain / chip should be extremely viable and interact with other chips.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Because we still have something to do with East Africa ... the origin. In this in the upcoming chip / cloud world ... or whatever ...
no longer necessary! The fault-prone human body is simply meaningless and useless!
The brain with its data is (LIFE!?) transferred to a chip / cloud ... is capable of development - communicates - and lives.

The problem with this "horror story" is, that I think it's possible .... that something like that can happen.
Depends only on whether you can transfer the human brain to a computer, chip, cloud, etc. ... and it "lives on" there.
What a bad luck for us! If that is actually done in 2030, 40, 50, 90 ... we - who are alive today and are older - have nothing to do with it.
Only a few years off. THE ETERNAL LIFE missed!!! :cry: :x :P :roll:

Is that a big step forward ... for mankind? ... If it´s possible "they do that!" ..."they did it all". :twisted:

That is the biggest possible step in human history! The evolution from human life to the Computer Life!
Now to the ALIENS!...In which forms of existence ... will they exist ??? ....if they are 200 million years ahead of us? :?
Still with ... or without matter?

The EARTH does not know about us ... but will - absolutely sure - continue to rotate! For billions of years! With or without us! :!:
I know that for sure!

By the way, we are only guests here! ... who behave as ...

DIGITAL CHIP HUMAN BRAIN DIALOG - "Anxiety Online" :lol: This is the Future of human life?



Even more Futuristic! Please see completely. Or as long as you can stand it. Big surprise at the end. A wonder!!!

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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Mon May 07, 2018 11:24 am

The main reason for extending life as far as I am concerned would be space exploration and resistance to the large amounts of radiation out there in the unprotected environment of the Earth. We all know that unless there is some monumental shift in how we power space flight it would take us many life times just to reach our nearest neighbouring star which is just 4 light years away. That is not really a practicable way to find "Earth 2".

Our home planet has finite resources and is vulnerable to all sorts of natural and man made disasters. Even just taking population into account we NEED to find other places to colonise or we are doomed as a species.

The planets in our own solar system are mostly very inhospitable places. Mars is not exactly geared up for human habitation. Sure we could go there and perhaps create settlements there but large scale populations? No, we need to find another Earth like planet.

If we can't make the move to light speed travel then your looking at "time" and with an average human lifespan of around 80 years you either go down the large city size space craft and generational travel where people are born live and die on-board, creating new generations to carry on and eventually reach the end point OR you go with extending human lifespan through genetics and augmentation.

I think probably my generation will just be around long enough to see the beginnings of all this but it won't have much of an impact on us. I will be 70 years old in 2030 and whilst I have no doubt that 70 will be "relatively" young by then it still won't be young enough to reap the benefits of any progress in transhumanism...if you want to call it progress of course and I understand why many people would not.

In terms of preservation of human life you have to take into account that none of us ever truly die and I'm not talking in a spiritual sense here. Current estimates are, that over 100 Billion people have lived and died on this planet before us. Think about that number for a moment, that's a HUGE amount of people! They may have died and are no longer with us in the form that we knew them BUT they are still here.

Where do you think all those people went? Whether buried or cremated the particles that made up each and every human that lived and died is still present on the planet today, just in many different forms.

In a way we are all a product of what went before since the raw materials that go to making a human are all around us every day. Up to 60% of the human body is made from water, plain old H2O and where does that come from? The hydrologic cycle...evaporating water from oceans carried up into the atmosphere and falling as rain, which is then filtered through the land...through our remains...to start the cycle all over again. And really that is a metaphor for human life. We are recycled from the materials that were used before and that are always present.

So in a way we already live forever. The issue is that all the breaks in between life times equals broken continuity. Augmentation allows us to stop that break and progress past where we are at the moment. Humans are stuck in the endless cycle of having a life time which is "just too short" to let us realise our potential to it's fullest.

Remember that old saying "youth is wasted on the young"? That is absolutely true in the sense that it is often not until much later in life you start to figure out what it's all about. You have often used up two thirds of your human lifespan by the time that happens and then your into the twilight years...perhaps your not as strong and healthy as you were and even though you have accumulated knowledge and hopefully wisdom your then cut down before you have a chance to fully develop and put it to good use. But what if you had another 50 years or 100 years? and all of that would be in good health? What could you then achieve?

Honestly I don't know where it will all lead but I do know that human life is way too short and is the reason we run around at break neck speed trying to cram in as much as possible before it all ends. It increases stress and anxiety and often leads to a blocking of your potential. Is that really living? A slower pace of life would benefit us all, not just personally but as a species.
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by purcell » Mon May 07, 2018 2:39 pm

There are facts that make our solar system unique!
First of all, our sun ... a very long living G 2 type -living for about 10 billion years.
Then the special size of the planets and planets orbits.
It took billions of years to make life arise!!! ...LIFE - for sure - needs a very long time...to emerge.
All this needed our special G2 sun and our precisely tuned planetary system.

The unique characteristics of our earth (ozone layer, strong magnetic field and the big MOON! ... in addition the rotation time etc.)
make the earth so unique .... that I wonder if there is a second planet like earth at all - throughout the universe.

The three star alpha centauri system - for sure - has no planets.

Long journeys through the universe ... are simply impracticable.

We live here on a unique planet ... that has been created in a unique way (under absolutely special conditions)
to create life that is perfectly attuned to the earth conditions.
Impossible to transport this life ... through the universe ... and settle somewhere else.

Life is absolutely bound to the earth and this very special planetary system.
This is precisely equipped with the matching long-live sun type G2,other special planets and a very large earthmoon.
Without that special earthmoon...no life would exist.
("Theja collision": with a very special, random angle of attack that produces the right, big moon exactly.
This process is completely random, with all other possibilities. Too big, too small, too fast, ..... etc. : And no suitable earth moon would have arisen.)
These are all random phenomena. Such a thing can not be the same elsewhere. That is absolutely impossible.

Questionable ... where there should be something like that again..

Life can arise ... but it does not have to!
It needs suitable conditions ... otherwise it just will not happen.
And all of that ... should be extremely rare. :?:
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by parametric » Mon May 07, 2018 3:07 pm

Hmm . . .

First sight of that logo reminded me much of"Syndicate" Bullfrog/EA - which I found both compulsive with somewhat depressing atmospherics . .

Anyone remember it?



Here's some background and gameplay . . . . .



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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Mon May 07, 2018 4:04 pm

There is nothing at all "unique" about our planet, sun or solar system. There are plenty of stars in the Universe the same as our sun.

Nature works on patterns and the pattern of life on Earth is repeated millions of times through the universe with variations here and there.

All the materials that make up life on Earth exists in abundance throughout the universe so there is no reason to believe we are unique other than our own ego in "wanting" to think it is the case, although why that notion would make anyone happy is completely alien to me.

Space is big and we are infinitesimally small in comparison. Our own galaxy the Milky Way has around 100 billions stars in it and there are over 100 billion galaxies in the visible universe so that gives you some perspective on just how many "unique" earth's there might be. ;)

Scientists estimate that there are billions of habitable planets in the Milky Way alone so think on that for a moment.

Now consider the wide array of life on planet Earth itself, most of which follows a fairly similar pattern, of eyes, nose, mouth, legs or variations on that theme. This is not a random pattern thrown together but a sequence carefully constructed in accordance with nature. That basic structure will be repeated elsewhere in our galaxy and throughout the universe.

The main reason people can't get their head around this simple idea is because they cannot conceptualise the vastness of the known universe. It takes us the best part of 6 months just to send unmanned spacecraft to Mars and years to reach other planets just within our own solar system and that is not counting the long development time to build and put these spacecraft together. If we were able to jump from star system to star system in a matter of days for example, the notion of life in other parts of the universe would not be so hard to imagine and I have no doubt we would come across it quite often.

Which brings us back to transhumanism and do you go down that route and give ourselves the lifespans in which to reach to stars or do we instead develop the technology to reach the stars well within a human's normal healthy lifespan?
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Mon May 07, 2018 4:05 pm

parametric wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 3:07 pm
Hmm . . .

First sight of that logo reminded me much of"Syndicate" Bullfrog/EA - which I found both compulsive with somewhat depressing atmospherics . .

Anyone remember it?



Here's some background and gameplay . . . . .



para
That seems vaguely familiar but I don't remember playing it. I think anything that pixelated would have soon put me off though.
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by purcell » Mon May 07, 2018 4:41 pm

"Scientists estimate that there are billions of habitable planets in the Milky Way alone so think on that for a moment."
I know that all.
But..!
In the history of the earth, coincidentally, comets and asteriodes have fallen into time and space.
These have more often e.g. create a supervulcanism that has extinguished many times almost the entire life.
This happened for the last time 65 million years ago.

by these special conditions the dinosaurs became extinct ... and over a very long - random - way ... humans arose.
If the impact had not happened ... would no humans exist and dinosaurs populate the earth?

The human "sophisticated life". I am only concerned about it now. Is an absolute random event ... depends on extremely many coincidences ....!
This random chain had to run undisturbed for almost 5 billion years.
This is only possible at certain -extremely quiet zones in the galaxy!
The sun-type G2 had to fit.
The supernova explosion 6.6 billion years ago gave birth to our sun ....
and also the heavy elements - which make up the 4 rocky planets ... and also us!...

Human life has come about through random chains ... that should not exist anywhere else. I'm just talking about ours! human life - on earth.

Whether biological evolution exists elsewhere.
Plants, animals .... humans ????? or whatever exist .... have existed or will exist? I do not know!
I can not know! I will not know! ... Because the dimensions in the universe are far too big!

All I'm saying is that human life needs extremely precise conditions to exist.

Has arisen under absolute random conditions. And is mathematically almost impossible. Nearly!
And all that depends extremely on the development of the earth!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
True or false?
Identical (and other) universes before there, now there ... forever there ???

Alex Vilenkin interview about the Multiverse



Many Worlds in One, Alex Vilenkin

Last edited by purcell on Mon May 07, 2018 7:48 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Mon May 07, 2018 5:15 pm

It's not random at all. Your thinking in very boxed in human terms. You need to step back and think on a universal scale. The events your talking about are happing all the time all over the universe. It is the nature of the universe and how life is created.

There are no doubt many types of life in the universe. It doesn't always need to fit in with what we think of as life. Humans follow a constant theme, of head, arms, legs etc. It is repeated everywhere and will be repeated on millions of planets just in our own galaxy alone. but this does not mean we are talking about "humans" on other planets. They may follow a similar basic pattern but can be very different in their biology and physiology.

What are humans? Just slightly smarter and more evolved versions of other life on this planet. I am sure there is plenty of life in the universe that would consider us very primitive and there will be other life that has not yet reached our level of evolution.

Life exists in the most extreme conditions and we keep finding it here on planet Earth. It is found were we previously thought that life as we know it could not come into existence and survive but, there it is alive an well.

We are at the very early stages of our knowledge despite thinking we are very clever. Everything we know is based on what we already know and if history shows us anything at all it is that we are consistently wrong and having to update our knowledge, often in ways we previously assumed was ridiculous.

Nothing is impossible and everything is possible.
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by purcell » Mon May 07, 2018 11:14 pm

These are all only assumptions - without any proof.
That will probably stay that way for a very long time.

The most important components of the universe - dark matter and dark energy - are completely unknown.
It's even unknown ... what an electron really is! Quantum physics!

Genesis Universe! Only theories! World formula unknown!

So if you do not know anything about the most important components of the universe - you can not make any predictions.

Life (organic life!)! Can exist and arise only in certain temperature ranges.

Star types
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_classification

Planet systems

Most planetary systems found so far are extremely chaotic! Size of the planets, tracks, distance to the central sun, ... etc
For life - completely unsuitable!

That alone ... considerably restricts the number of habitable planets. Star type - Star size - stability - age and distribution in the planetary system.

So there are a lot of them - most of them? - are no planetary systems for life!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It's bad of course: poking around here in the scientific fog.

Although we live already in 2018, the crucial questions .... are completely unclear!
And the worst spook, is quantum physics!

Our present and past physics simply can not properly describe and interpret the reality of the universe.
In these border areas of science ... you just do not know enough! With such energies and phenomena,
the physics collapses ... and produces only confused results. "big bang ... if it existed at all?" ... for example.

So there are :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: :?: everywhere!

Will we still experience the right meaning and description of the universe(s) and Quantum physics! ...(formulas)? I do not think so!

Mickey Mouse & Minnie Mouse ...
Anyone remember it?

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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Tue May 08, 2018 11:09 am

We have no proof that there are not multiple forms of life in the universe. There is no proof that Earth is the only planet of it's type amongst the billions that are out there.

Look back a few hundred years and you will seem loads of learned men preaching in very definitive terms about life, planet Earth and our place in the Universe. There was no doubt at all that they were correct...only they weren't. With each generation we learn more things about ourselves and mostly these are things that completely debunk what was held as accepted "fact" before.

In a few hundred years from now people will be looking back and wondering why we were so primitive in our thinking. How could we ever have believed we were unique?

If you only ever lived in a single room with a pile of old dusty science books for company you would be absolutely certain that everything written in those books was correct and unquestionable. Then suddenly your allowed into the outside world and discover most of what you had believed was incorrect. That is us and the Earth is the closed room. The universe is vast but we only see a small portion of it and all our beliefs are based on the knowledge and information we currently hold to be true.

I am sure we have got some of it right but I am equally sure a lot of it will be wrong.

Anyway, without a time machine and being able to jump a few centuries into the future I am not sure we will know the answers. Our descendants will have that opportunity to know if we were right...unless of course we manage to wipe ourselves out before that comes to pass.

I do think the James Webb telescope will change a lot of things. We will be able to see further and in more detail than we have ever been able to in the past and we will also be able to understand more about exoplanets and their make up. Then later in the mid 2020's we should also have much larger ground based telescopes online and some of these will be able to directly image certain exoplanets and so our knowledge will grow, expand and no doubt change as some of the things we currently believe to be true prove not to be.

Hopefully whilst all this is happening we will also see breakthroughs in medical science that will eradicate some of the most life threatening illnesses that currently cut so many lives short...THAT will be real progress :)
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by purcell » Tue May 08, 2018 3:36 pm

Every planetary system - is different and has its own special story in time and space! There is no standard planetary system

In astrophysics, an accretion disk is a disc rotating around a central object that transports (accretes) matter towards the center, and can be a standard disk of atomic gas, variously ionized gas (plasma), or interstellar dust. And it is (must be!) different!

The planets in the system interact with the sun and also with themselves! Random!

Jupiter and Saturn were much closer to the sun ages ago! This is often observed in other planetary systems!
Gas planets are often very close to their sun.

In addition, Jupiter and Saturn were then in a 3-2 track resonance (for some time) ...
which had a big gravitational effect on outer Uranus and Neptune!
The orbits of inner Neptune and outer Uranus have - therefore - have been swapped!
What had the consequence .... that Neptune on his new outer track ... gravitationally impacted on the Kuiperbelt and created a chaos there!
This chaos (Kuiperbelt) caused itself a rapid increase of asteroids and comets falling on the earth and the other inner planets.
Therefore : "LATE HEAVY BOMBARDMENT" ! ...without this...total drought! Almost like Mars today! = NO LIFE!

And most likely all the water (over asteriodes) came to Earth, Mars, Venus etc. - by Neptun in the Kuiperbelt!
would that not be the case - only inner desert planets would exist - all without water! = NO LIFE possible!

The Kuiper belt surrounds the solar system behind the Neptune orbit with thousands of frozen boulders and miniplanets.
For a long time, this rock ring, whose members are all orbiting the sun far out, was unknown.

This complete one-time random process only happened here!
There is nowhere else something like that again! The 3-2 resonance ...with exactly these planet masses
... the track exchange of Uranus and Neptune ... which leads to water on the inner planet .... is an absolutely unique random event!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Of course, not to Vilenkin!

There are infinitely many identical solar systems .... with the same and other people - before and after our time!
In an interview he said: Elsewhere - in the same solar system Hitler unfortunately won the war ... not in other systems!
I saw this interview myself on TV.
Hard to believe...living everywhere - forever - with all possibilities that can happen!
And every possibility really happens .... in the everlasting - endless multiverses! Before that - now - and forever!

If Vilenkin is right ... and found the truth .... he is the greatest scientist of all time!
If not - He is simply mad!

By the way: It is now the best time to make quick money!
Write a theory on cosmology or quantum physics. The craziier the better!
No danger! Proof of the theory ... most likely will not happen anyway. Lack of observations and facts, data.
So! The physics has never been this way. Everything without proof.
Along this way - some physics professors get rich. Books,interviews,bestsellers,...all without proof.
Reminds me on fakenews.

A real super problem for mankind? What is the universe(s)? How did it really come about? ...and ??? and ???...
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by purcell » Wed May 09, 2018 2:44 pm

Researchers recalculate probability for extraterrestrial civilizations

https://www.grenzwissenschaft-aktuell.d ... n20160502/

The Drake equation (above) for calculating the number of technologically advanced civilizations in the Milky Way. Milky Way!... not Universe(s).
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Are we alone in the universe? This question has always moved people.
With the help of the so-called Drake equation, scientists strive to provide an answer, at least statistically.
US astronomers have now fed this equation with the latest observation data.
The result: the likelihood of intelligent life only on Earth is low.
The probability that we can also make contact with this intelligence.

Thanks to data from the Kepler Space Telescope and other missions,
we now at least roughly estimate that about every fifth star is orbited by planets within the habitable zone.
One of the three major uncertainties we have now eliminated so.

The researchers have reversed the question:
"Instead of asking how many civilizations exist in the universe,
we ask what is the likelihood that we (humanity) may be the only civilization ever created in the universe," says Sullivan.

This shifted focus eliminates uncertainty about the lifespan of civilizations and allows researchers to ask how many times in the history of the universe life has evolved to a higher civilization? The scientists also applied a similar artifice in the light of the question of the probability of the emergence of intelligent life on life-friendly planets.

So instead of estimating this probability, Sullivan and Frank have calculated the probability against the emergence of intelligence - the scenario that we humans could be the only technologically evolved civilization in the present and the entire observable universe.

So while we can not say how likely it is for intelligent and technologically advanced species to emerge on a life-friendly planet, "explains Frank," but how can we say exactly how low the likelihood that we've always been the only civilization in the universe were and are. We call this the 'pessimism limit': If the probability is above this limit, then it can be safely assumed that there have been technological civilizations before us. "

The likelihood that there has never been a civilization in the universe before us,
therefore, is only given if the likelihood
that a civilization may have evolved on a certain life-friendly planet is below 1 billion trillion (10 to the power of 22) ,


And that's incredibly low, "explains Frank. "For me, this shows that in all likelihood intelligent civilizations have developed in the universe before us."

Before the results of the new calculations, even the assumption of the probability value for the emergence of an extraterrestrial civilization of 1 to a trillion was considered mathematically pessimistic. "But even this estimate of probability (from one to one trillion) suggests that the genesis of intelligence as on Earth actually occurred more than 10 billion times in cosmic history."

If the standards are falling, then of course, the values ​​become less extreme: The probability that intelligent life develops within our Milky Way is given when the probability that intelligent life has developed on a particular planet is more than 1 in 60 Billion lies.

"The universe is more than 13 billion years old," comments Sullivan. "That means that even if there were about 1,000 civilizations in our own galaxy, but they exist only as long as human civilization has existed (about 10,000 years ago), probably none of these civilizations still exist today - and others will emerge much later after us. "

The chance that we find a "contemporary" foreign and technologically active civilization, so be low. Unless civilizations last much longer than our previous ones.

"Due to the unimaginable distances between the stars and the fixed speed of the light, we will probably never be able to have a direct conversation with another civilization," :!: Frank believes.

But even in the event that there are, in fact, no other civilizations in our galaxy with which we could communicate, the new findings have fundamental scientific and philosophical implications: "The fundamental question of whether any technological civilization has ever arisen anywhere before us "Our result gives a relatively clear answer: It is amazingly probable that the earth and our time was not and is not the only place where an advanced civilization has arisen."

In addition to the statistical statements that are in the study result, Frank and Sullivan but also see a practical application for this. "In the face of the climate crisis, one can ask the question whether other civilizations on other planets have come to a similar limit and yet have made it to the other side," said Frank. "After all, we do not even know if high-tech civilizations can survive for more than a few centuries." With the help of the new findings, scientists can now begin to simulate the interaction of energy-intensive civilizations with their homeworlds, knowing that that there should probably have been quite a few civilizations in the universe.
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"Our findings suggest that our biological and cultural evolution is unlikely to be unique, and has likely occurred many times before us," the researchers conclude. "The other cases probably also involve very energy-intensive civilizations, which were always confronted with planetary crises as their civilizations grew. So now we can start using simulations to get an idea of ​​what leads to long-lived civilizations and what does not. "

All this - as usual - without any proof! :!: ... and remains without proof in our lifetime?!
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Saul
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Re: No death and an enhanced life: Is the future transhuman?

Unread post by Saul » Wed May 09, 2018 4:41 pm

It's all without proof but all you need really is some common sense and the understanding that humans are not as special as we like to think. As I said before, we are only slightly more advanced than the other creatures we share the planet with. I also think humans have not stopped evolving...well most of us haven't, there are always exceptions ;)

As long as we don't blow ourselves into oblivion and don't die of some biological disaster AND avoid being struck by a rather large chunk of space rock we may just get a few more centuries under our belt before it all goes to sh*$ ;)
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