Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Covering the SY22 to SY55 and TG Modules.

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cluekid
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Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Tue May 22, 2018 8:55 pm

hello everyone! just bought my first synthesizer and im in love with it :)

however i've encountered a problem when trying to save my custom patches to the keyboards internal memory. I was able to save my patches and turn off and turn on the keyboard and still have them. but for some reason after having the keyboard shut off for 5 or so minutes all my sounds get erased! Not sure if it's a battery issue or I have to buy a card to save my custom patches. thanks!
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Miks
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by Miks » Tue May 22, 2018 9:41 pm

Hi cluekid,

welcome to the Yamaha Musicians forum (Y) :D

Well - most likely your synth has a 'battery voltage' issue - this could be an empty battery due to its age. Another possibility could be a defective electrolytic capacitor which is normally 'buffering' the battery voltage. If it defective it may cause drawing a higher current out of the battery and discharged it a lot quicker than 'usual'. The battery supplies the RAM (Random Access Memory) - IC10 - of your synth - that's where the 'sounds' are stored. If the battery fails the memory is getting erased - all sounds are gone 8O

Edit: just took a look onto the schematic - the SY22 has a built-in 'super cap' - which acts as a battery though, like described before. I suppose this super cap (which is an electrolytic capacitor with a large capacity) has reached its life end and should be replaced. The specs of this cap are: 0.47F/5.5V/5.0mm content spacing - which is a quite common type.

PS: check your PMs :wink:
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade


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cluekid
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Wed May 23, 2018 4:11 pm

thanks miks! :)

this is all very new to me - so i would just have to replace the old capacitor with a new one?
would you mind sending me a link to the right capacitor just want to be sure
thanks for the help :lol:
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by Miks » Wed May 23, 2018 5:00 pm

@ cluekid: PM sent...
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade


http://rescuer-uslar.de/
https://www.facebook.com/Rescuer.Uslar/
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cluekid
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:29 am

So i managed to replace the battery for a new one and i still seem to be having the same problem as before. I also have the original ac adapter as well i just don't know what could be the problem /:
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by Saul » Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:01 am

cluekid can you try saving some voices and then turn the internal memory protect ON and see if that changes anything?

Details are on page 73 of the user manual.
SY22E.pdf
Yamaha SY22 User Manual
(2.87 MiB) Downloaded 18 times
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:28 pm

Saul wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 11:01 am
cluekid can you try saving some voices and then turn the internal memory protect ON and see if that changes anything?

Details are on page 73 of the user manual.

SY22E.pdf
I've tried that a bunch of times already and no luck - I also tried letting the new capacitor to charge for a while and i still keep having the same problem.
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Tue Jul 03, 2018 9:44 pm

Would buying a 12-volt DC output 800mA power supply be a better choice? I currently have the PA-3 10-volt 700mA power supply not sure if it could be a voltage issue
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by Rara » Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:54 pm

I think that might be a tad under rated. try a 12v 1 amp adaptor.
my sy35 is happily running 12v 1amp.
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cluekid
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Sat Jul 14, 2018 3:09 am

Rara wrote:
Wed Jul 04, 2018 3:54 pm
I think that might be a tad under rated. try a 12v 1 amp adaptor.
my sy35 is happily running 12v 1amp.
Started using the 12V 1amp nothing has changed :(
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cluekid
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by cluekid » Thu Aug 09, 2018 4:53 pm

any other suggestions?
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by Saul » Thu Aug 09, 2018 5:51 pm

Still sounds like it is a battery issue. As Miks pointed out, the battery is the thing that enables your sounds to stay in memory when you turn the keyboard off so without that voltage going to the memory you will lose your saved sounds. The battery itself is fine as you have replaced it...unless for some reason the voltage is being drained somewhere.

The power adaptor won't help with keeping the sounds in memory, only the battery can do that.

I'm not quite sure what there is between the battery and the memory. Capacitors obviously but what else could be causing the voltage either to not get through or if it is getting through to not hold?
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by SiriusHardware » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:19 pm

When you changed the battery did you notice anything in the general area?

Stains, white chalky or crystalline deposits? It sometimes happens that dying batteries leak a bit, and if that happens the electrolyte can actually eat away any tracks which it comes into contact with. I had that sort of experience with leaking electrolytic capacitors (which, in a way, are like little batteries) which leaked in my SY22 and dissolved some copper track, causing loss of one channel on the headphone output until the damaged tracks were repaired.

In your case, localised leakage from the old battery may have damaged something in the area around the battery. It may have dissolved away the tracks which connect the battery to the circuit whose contents it is supposed to maintain. I believe Miks had exactly this experience on one of his synths a while ago, although not an SY22.

While looking, look carefully at all the electrolytic (metal can type) capacitors to make sure none of them have started to leak.
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Re: Yamaha SY22 Internal Memory Problems

Unread post by Miks » Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:54 am

SiriusHardware wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:19 pm
I believe Miks had exactly this experience on one of his synths a while ago, although not an SY22.
Exact - it was my M1REX who's electrolytic capacitor (works as a 'buffer' for the (coin cell's) battery voltage) was leaking onto the pcb and the acid dissolved a copper trace. It was just the trace that 'leads' the battery voltage to pin 28 of the RAMs - so the internal memory went empty and wasn't able to hold its content if newly 'filled' with patches. After desoldering the cap, a good cleaning of the pcb's affected area and a new replacement cap a short piece of wire bypassed the damaged trace and all was back in working order... :D
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade


http://rescuer-uslar.de/
https://www.facebook.com/Rescuer.Uslar/
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