how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

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jurgen
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how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jurgen » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:08 pm

Hi everybody, I have recently purchased a second-hand EX5 and wanted to load some sounds into it from floppy disks. As far as I understand EX5 floppy disk should be in 720k format. Surprisingly, some *.s1a, *.s1y, *.s1m files from online archives are significantly larger than 720k and even larger than 1.44MB (the largest file is for example dxepiano.s1a = 2.5MB, VXHUMANA.s1m ~8MB). Does anybody know how such large files should be loaded into EX5? Is it only possible with an extension board / external drive? Because floppy fdd is restricted to only 720k. Your comments and suggestions are highly appreciated. jurgen
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by parametric » Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:32 pm

Welcome to the Forums Jurgen . . . .

I think there MUST be a solution to this . . . .

Perhaps an expansion that you NEED, but do not have installed?

If only because the ProPiano Voice that loads into my SY85 exists in TWO sizes.

The LARGER version - for loading into an SY85 that has the Non-Volatile RAM upgrade -

comes on TWO 720k disks.

When loading it, the SY asks for the SECOND Disk . . . . .when the first has finished loading . . .

Perhaps the EX5 WILL ask for a second disk IF you attempt to save a Voice that won't fit on ONE floppy?

Just a thought. I don't have an EX5 :roll:

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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jurgen » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:10 pm

Hi parametric, thank you for your response. Some files from online archives are, in fact, already split into series of files smaller than 720k, but many others are provided as single files of several MB size. May be there is a tool which can split such large files into smaller once in appropriate manner so that EX5 can read one by one. But I have not yet found something like this.
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by Derek » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:25 pm

Hi.

Congratulations on your purchase. It is still a mighty synth.

The EX5 has a 1.44MB floppy drive, and the vast majority of downloads will fit within this. For the larger ones you need the ASIB1 SCSI card and a SCSI device. And of course either more DRAM of FLASH in your EX5 - the stock Wave RAM (not ROM) is only 1MB.
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jurgen » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:52 pm

Hi, Derek. I am aware of limitations and imperfections of EX5. Just wanted to try the new/old sound. SCSI must be difficult nowadays. Is it possible to read larger EX5 file from modern USB-emulators of floppy drive or they are also limited to 1.44MB. By the way I read somewhere that EX5 is still using 720k. Are you sure it does? I ask because I was trying to save *.s1a on 1.44MB and EX5 reported success, but could not read this file on PC (neither Windows7,XP nor Win97).
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by Derek » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Hi, Juergen

Unless somebody has swapped your floppy disk for a 720K model, then the EX5 MOST DEFINITELY used a 1.44MB model. Think about it, it was designed around 1MB of DRAM, and space required for 1MB of sample data and the other data structures would not fit on a 720K disk in an S1A file.

Assuming you have a 1.44MB drive then the problems could be down to what machine the disk was formatted on (try the PC and then try the EX5) or you may have a bad head alignment problem.

The good news is that the EX5 uses a standard PC 3.5” drive, so you could always try fitting a new one. It’s a fairly easy job.

I’m afraid that to the best of my knowledge you cannot get beyond the 1.44MB limit on the floppy interface. For that you need SCSI. Keep an eye out for ASIB1 cards as they do come up for sale around the £100 mark. Or you could look for an A3000 which are really cheap these days and canabalise it for both the SCSI card (fitted as standard) and the power supply. Note the EX5 PSU is no longer repairable by Yamaha, but the A3000 PSU is a drop in replacement.
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jima » Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:08 pm

+1 with Derek. You should not believe all that you read (except what we say :) ). The EX5, as Derek says, is and always has been 1.44Mb. You should first run the diagnostics on the drive, Voice + H + 8 will get you to the menu from where you can run the diskette diagnostics. Use an HD diskette you can afford to erase. Diskettes are not what they used to be, use one you can trust. Always format the diskette on the EX5, not the PC. Try first with a smaller EX5 set, an S1Y file, not an S1A file. An emulator will not help you here, a thousand emulated diskettes none of which are larger than 1.44Mb gets you nowhere with large files. Let us know how you get on.
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jurgen » Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:43 pm

I have checked the floppy drive and it is in fact 1.44MB. I tried another disk and both s1a and s1y saved on EX5 could be read on PC as well.

@Derek:

Regarding Derek's suggestion: I have looked what is available on the web and found following RAM extensions:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/64MB-2x32MB-Kit ... SwSzRZVYgP
https://www.ebay.de/itm/64MB-2x32-Speic ... SwPzhaQYpj

These are not original yamaha RAMs, but they claim it is compartible with EX5. Do you think it is worth to try it?

Regarding SCSI I have not seen anything yet. If someone has an idea where one can buy it please let me know that.

I have seen a EX5 librian by http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/products.html. Can one load large s1a, s1y files using this software via Midi-Interface (provided one has enough RAM space)?
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by EXer » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:36 pm

jurgen wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:43 pm
I have looked what is available on the web and found following RAM extensions:

https://www.ebay.de/itm/64MB-2x32MB-Kit ... SwSzRZVYgP
https://www.ebay.de/itm/64MB-2x32-Speic ... SwPzhaQYpj
They are far too expensive !

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jurgen
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jurgen » Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:07 pm

Hi EXer, I wished I have a recycling shop next door, but the web is the closest one. Dont know where else one can find such old components.
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by Saul » Sun Jun 10, 2018 12:53 am

jurgen wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 8:07 pm
Hi EXer, I wished I have a recycling shop next door, but the web is the closest one. Dont know where else one can find such old components.
I probably have some here. Will have a look and if so your more than welcome to them :)
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by Derek » Sun Jun 10, 2018 9:24 am

I'm glad you have file transfer working now.

As to the price of the items you have found, I agree with EXer that they are not cheap, and first port of call would be a PC repair shop to see what they had lying about. But if I could not find another source, then 30EUR compared to wasting many hours of my time searching is a trade-off I would accept depending on my need to get this working :) .
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by jurgen » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:23 am

Hi again, I am still looking for the ASIB1 SCSI interface. Does anybody know where one can buy it?
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by Derek » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:48 pm

Hi. I advised in my post on 4th June to look out for an A3000 for sale (e.g. EBay). it will have the SCSI card, potentially RAM that would also work in the EX5 (same vintage) and als a PSU you can keep for a spare in case the EX5 PSU fails (Yamaha no longer repair them).

That advice is still good. :D
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Re: how to load large files *.s1a, *.s1y to EX5

Unread post by Derek » Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:52 pm

jurgen wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 12:43 pm
I have seen a EX5 librian by http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk/products.html. Can one load large s1a, s1y files using this software via Midi-Interface (provided one has enough RAM space)?
Sorry, I missed this question first time around. :oops: I am the author of ex.factory. :)

The answer to you question is no. The reason is because the EX5 does not support MIDI Sample Dump Standard, which is only really suitable for transferring small samples. The EX5 MIDI implementation is quite constrained (as and buggy) and you can only transfer voices and performances - but beware using librarians that do not work around the EX5 SYSEX bugs! 8O ex.factory does.
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