Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

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Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Derek » Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:08 am

I was quite surprised to see this in my in-box this morning...
Comment:
Hello From Yamaha,

NOTE: I sent the following content in an email broadcast as well, but as this thread is specifically related to the survey question, we decided to post here as well.

We would like to know more about the relative importance and usefulness of different tone generator technologies. This feedback will go directly into our product planning. The survey has eight questions and will take about 1-2 minutes to complete. We appreciate your time and input.

https://yamahaus.co1.qualtrics.com/jfe/ ... fnNyjUpNQh

Sincerely,
Ben Israel
R&D Planning Manager
Yamaha Corporation of America
I completed my survey input immediately! I'm not sure if this relates to future Montage/MODX updates or another product down the line, but you never know!

Idealscale Post

Yamaha Survey
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by vertig0spin » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:58 pm

Worth repeating here also! ;)
_______________

I completed mine as soon as I saw it as well...

Is it possible that something like a 3rd engine (i.e. Virtual Analog) could be added to the existing Montage/MODX synths purely via software programming, or is the circuitry not there?

Derek wrote:
Sat Dec 01, 2018 10:08 am
I completed my survey input immediately! I'm not sure if this relates to future Montage/MODX updates or another product down the line, but you never know!
Idealscale Post
Derek, I just saw your link above re. 'Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage', and I signed onto Ideascale right away and up voted it for you ... for all of us! ;) (I somehow missed that one on Ideascale and recently added basically the same idea...see below)...


In the additional comments section I also mentioned about my ideas on IdeaScale regarding (see the Ideascale links below each to check them out and 'Up Vote' them if you like the idea and would like to see it implemented):

1. VA - It would be great if you add a Virtual Analog engine on the Montage/MODX to put the icing on the cake and make these synths the complete package (I just added this recently prior to receiving the email, so an interesting coincidence)
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd ... 1530-45978

2. AWM2 - It would be great if you added Yamaha VRM (Sympathetic String Resonance) on Montage/MODX Pianos
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd ... 1013-45978

3. AWM2 - It would be great if you added 'Velocity Scaling' especially for pianos using the MODX8 keybed, but also for other programming reasons, providing addition capabilities to enhance/change the sound across the entire keyboard or in sections.
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd ... 4570-45978

4. AWM2 - It would be great if you added a C7 Grand Piano Library for Montage/MODX
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd ... 0797-45978

This next one isn't necessarily pertaining to a particular engine, but I thought it worth mentioning while we have their attention:
5. It would be great if you added 'Punch In/Out' on Single/Selected Tracks of the Montage/MODX Performance Recorder (Sequencer)
https://yamahasynth.ideascale.com/a/dtd ... 4571-45978

If you like any or all of these ideas, please Up Vote them on Idealscale!


Note that with possibly the exception of the VA engine idea, all of the ideas/enhancements I submitted via Ideascale are software based programming changes that could more easily be implemented by Yamaha on their AWM2 engine/OS than a hardware change/enhancement request. Therefore if enough people like and 'Up Vote' any of these ideas, we have a better chance of potentially getting them in a future update!!
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Nuno » Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:54 pm

I did the survey as well.

I am very surprised at the forums here, it seems to be such a small community or maybe just not participating much :confusion-confused:

Would be great to have some more tone generators for sure, I wish their was a bit more noise here about it...

A real vsti plug-in intergration also seems like a no brainer.

I really hope Yamaha sells a lot of modx’s and works in some great future updates towards lots of musicians and not just keyboard players, a lot seems possible to add to this already great synth.
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Saul » Sat Dec 08, 2018 5:30 pm

Nuno wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:54 pm

I am very surprised at the forums here, it seems to be such a small community or maybe just not participating much :confusion-confused:
Do keep in mind that this site is not 'Yamaha' it is completely independent of the company and although Yamaha do monitor the site we don't have any Yamaha employees such as 'BM' taking an active part on the forum...he is registered here though;) But he is paid to take part on yamahasynth.com, it's his day job so why would he also post here?

We do have a lot of traffic but you can't force people to participate. For the most part they read the threads and get all the info they need without taking part in the conversation but that's fine.

We have discussed just about every aspect of the MODX since the day it launched and we have some fantastic members here with a real in-depth knowledge of how the MODX works and of course keyboards in general.

Compared to certain sites yes we are small but unlike them we have zero financial backing. The site is entirely community driven and in many ways it is the better for it.

Hang in there, the answers come eventually ;)
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Derek » Sat Dec 08, 2018 8:19 pm

Nuno wrote:
Sat Dec 08, 2018 4:54 pm

I am very surprised at the forums here, it seems to be such a small community or maybe just not participating much :confusion-confused:
Not sure of the point you are making? A lot of people will read, some will contribute, some more than others. If you have something to say, you are welcome to say it, if you don't then don't. The key thing it is a friendly forum, no flaming allowed (but little moderating needed).

You look at a lot of traffic on other forums and you could discard most of it as irrelevant rubbish.

Personally, as a very busy person, I prefer the quieter, more polite, more constructive forums such as this one. :D
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Nuno » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:00 pm

Hi,

I am sorry, I didn't mean to bring anything negative but just an observation.
I didn’t know this wasn’t an official forum for Yamaha and honestly just found it strange that isn’t busier as I assumed they were a tone of users, but maybe not so much.
Anyways, sorry if my comment was not appropriate, I really just excited hearing about new tone generators possibly being added to the Modx and was wondering why wouldn’t more people be talking about it.

Best,

Nuno
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Saul » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:23 pm

This is my own take on it and I may be completely wrong but I am guessing more people are not talking about it Nuno because most are not interested.

For the majority of people buying the MODX, AWM2 and FM-X are more than enough to be getting on with.

The world has moved on since all the hype about VA, when everyone jumped on the bandwagon and you could find lots of old analog gear coming onto the market plus virtual analog in the form of software and of course re-issues of older analog gear and a few apparently "new" analog synths but in reality they were just rehashing what already went before.

Analog has been done to death so when the rumour mill starts turning about Yamaha possibly adding a VA engine to MODX/Montage it is not as exciting for "most" as it might have been 5 years ago.

Some sort of acoustic modeling well that might be of more interest at least for me but would Yamaha do it? Who knows? And anyway I already have a shed load of modeled acoustic pianos in the form of Pianoteq.

As Derek mentioned, if you look at "apparently" busier forums most of it is just noise.

Crap analogy coming up but...Some people like the noise of the city and some like the quiet of the countryside. Yamahamusicians.com is that small village that sits between the two :)
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Nuno » Sat Dec 08, 2018 10:45 pm

Hehe,

That’s a great anology Saul.

On the link that Derek posted here from idea scale they are asking about different tone generators, not only VA but also
Granular, Wavetable, Physical modeling and Tonewheel Clone. So I think would be great to get them all in a future update or any of them would also be great and exciting to me.

Best wishes,

Nuno
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Saul » Sat Dec 08, 2018 11:09 pm

I suppose they will go with whatever is the most popular. Wavetable would be another one interesting for me and if Yamaha are talking about it then it's pretty obvious all of these engines can be added in software so that at least is promising :)

Maybe this will be Yamaha's trick up their collective sleeve for NAMM? Maybe they know what Roland and KORG are up to and have got the jump on them by being able to effectively create a completely new keyboard in software with a simple firmware update to MODX/MONTAGE?
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Derek » Sun Dec 09, 2018 9:54 am

Saul is right in that for many the current engines are more than enough, an dI would agree for two reasons
#1 - The Montage/MODX is SY77 like in that it can sound very analog just via the two engines it has - kudos to Yamaha!
#2 - Compared to the days of the EX5/AN1x, we have a plethora of modelling analog in VSTi form, and I have set up my current keyboard rig to allow me to do access to such modelling

Having said that, would I love to see more engines in the Montage? Of course I would! For one it shows that Yamaha is making a long term investment in something I have also made a heavy investment in. And for the other, the AN1x remains to my ears, one of the best sounding VAs so I would love to see a revised AN engine make an appearance in a multi-engine synth. Same for VL, I have never heard anything better that.

Whilst I have the means to play VSTis in my new rig, depending on what you are doing you need to spread your sounds out across the PC platform I have and the live synths. So the more options I have, the better.
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by ZT Scheer » Mon Dec 10, 2018 4:28 pm

The (sortof, on paper anyway) the Korg Kronos set the high bar for what a top-of-the-line, "flagship" workstation should be. While Yamaha arguably pioneered the multi-engine concept, Korg really perfected many aspects of the approach. I have my quibbles with the Kronos, which is why I don't own one ... but it's a masterwork of engineering and design nonetheless.

Yamaha honestly has a better portfolio of technologies. Their AWM2 really is the most fully-developed rompler engine. FM is FM, and FM-X is the nth degree expression of it, brilliantly realized in the Montage/MODX. The ReFace instruments were something of a cruel joke (IMHO), but it's clear that Yamaha knows how to do clonewheel-organ and virtual analog extremely well. Certainly VL technology must have matured since its introduction as well.

A next-gen workstation incorporating all of these technologies would be a game-changer, IMHO.
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Derek » Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:35 pm

I do think the Kronos is THE high bar for what it does. It does not have the Yamaha sound, but that is fine. I have come to like the Korg sound as well, which is why I want the best of both. :)

I am daring to dream now that Yamaha can expand the Montage in the same way that Korg expanded the original OASYS, which I think only shipped with HD-1 (S&S), AL-1 (Analog) and CX3 (Clonewheel), but obviously they kept expanding it through the later OASYS revisions and the Kronos to have another six engines in the Kronos 2.
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by ZT Scheer » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:48 pm

Derek wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:35 pm
I do think the Kronos is THE high bar for what it does. It does not have the Yamaha sound, but that is fine. I have come to like the Korg sound as well, which is why I want the best of both. :)
There is soooo much to love about the Kronos. Had a 76-note synth-action keybed been available, there would be one in my rig right now. I don't gel with their sampled instruments so much, as they sound shrill to me compared to Yamaha or Roland ... everything else is top-notch IMHO. My sincere wish/hope is that the next-gen Korg product in this category incorporates expanded versions of the model they have in th iOS "Gadget" app and it's associated instruments. Add a MonoPoly, Odyssey, Wavestation. "Dublin" (Moog), "Phoenix" (Oberheim) ... kicks the whole thing into new territory.
Derek wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 6:35 pm
I am daring to dream now that Yamaha can expand the Montage in the same way that Korg expanded the original OASYS, which I think only shipped with HD-1 (S&S), AL-1 (Analog) and CX3 (Clonewheel), but obviously they kept expanding it through the later OASYS revisions and the Kronos to have another six engines in the Kronos 2.
I too hope that they get out of their safe zone and do something spectacular.
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by Derek » Mon Dec 10, 2018 8:14 pm

I think we agree on a lot! :)

I so wanted a Kronos in 76 key form, and the 73 note or 88 note action was not for me. So I went for a Kronos X61 as a top tier board and gigged with an EX5 as the bottom tier until I replaced that with a Montage.

I quite like the HD-1 engine, especially the Wave sequencing aspects, the sound is less "strident" than Yamaha AWM , but horses for courses depending on what you are doing with other sources. AL-1 is an amazing VA that I got all sorts of different sounds out of. CX-3 is a very good modelled organ (but being left behind now by VSTi options), and the EP-1 and SGX engines provide very realistic electric and acoustic pianos. The latter uses unlooped, uncompressed samples streamed from hard disk and the last OS update introduced sympathetic string resonance. STR-1 provides very interesting sounds (but I think Yamaha VL is better for realism and of course STR-1 only covers plucked/bowed sounds) and Polysix/MS20 are good in their own way, but I use those less.

I agree I would love to see more engines in the Kronos, like the ones you mention. I'd even be prepared to pay for such upgrades. Ditto for Yamaha and the Montage.
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Re: Yamaha Ideascale Survey: Add an AN and VL synthesis engine to the Montage

Unread post by pax-eterna » Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:28 pm

More engines? Strike me lucky, I'd reckon 90% of people who own a MODX don't even fully utilise what's already there ;)
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