Play sample during performance?

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mitya
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Play sample during performance?

Unread post by mitya » Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:19 pm

I'm still in the early stages of learning my way around my lovely MODX8.

I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I in this general field could answer this question: is there a way I can record then trigger the playing of a sample during a performance?

I've figured out how to record, but I can't see any way to get playback of that recording during a performance - for example, in response to an assignable button being turned on, or a specific key pressed, etc.

I guess I'm thinking in terms of Roland's FA-08, with its sample buttons to the right of the main dash. Anything like that, or would I need a separate unit for this sort of thing?

In my case I want to record a piano riff and switch that on in the chorus then off at the end of it. I don't have enough hands to play everything manually :-)

Thanks in advance.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by Stevie18 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:49 pm

Yes, you can do that. Assign the sample to a waveform. You need to create a key band to put it on a specific key. Then you can assign the user waveform it to a part. Make sure that the part's key range is limited to one key (I use the lowest key on the keyboard in most cases). Then it will play until you release the key. You can also have a very long sustain to make sure the whole sample is played. There are tutorials on the Yamaha forum and Youtube on how to create a user waveform. Please have a look there.

It is also possible to start playing the sample with one key and stop it with a second one by having the second one play a silent sound and assign both sounds to the same key group and configure them to be mutually exclusive like for example closed and open hihat. If you then press the second key, the first will stop sounding.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by ZT Scheer » Fri Dec 07, 2018 6:02 pm

mitya wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 12:19 pm
... I was hoping someone more knowledgeable than I in this general field could answer this question: is there a way I can record then trigger the playing of a sample during a performance? ...
This seems like something well suited to a MODX drum program, assuming they are one-shot samples.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by mitya » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:00 pm

Wow, mindblowing. The stuff this thing can do. Actually what you're describing is probably par for the course for a piece of kit like this, but to me as a noob it all seems amazing.

I'll look into what you said :-)

Thank you
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by mitya » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:08 pm

Stevie - I'm struggling to find the tutorials you mentioned. I've searched for "MODX User Waveform" on YouTube but nothing obvious. Could you be so kind to point me to a post or video you're aware of? Many thanks.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by ZT Scheer » Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:10 pm

mitya wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:00 pm
Wow, mindblowing ... to me as a noob it all seems amazing.
I try to be mindful that for those of us who have been at this since before MIDI (and then some), we got the advantage of getting to take it a chunk at a time. Newer players get a giant "drinking through a fire hose" experience ... an awful lot to consume all at once.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by Stevie18 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 10:03 pm

mitya wrote:
Fri Dec 07, 2018 8:08 pm
Stevie - I'm struggling to find the tutorials you mentioned. I've searched for "MODX User Waveform" on YouTube but nothing obvious. Could you be so kind to point me to a post or video you're aware of? Many thanks.
The important information that you are missing most probably is that the MODX is in most aspects identical to the Montage. The MODX is just a Montage with a different hardware package and slightly reduced specs. The software is only different where necessary to accommodate for those differences. Thus virtually all tutorials which are valid for the Montage are also valid for the MODX. Thus if you are looking for tutorials search for Montage instead of MODX and you will find much more.

In this case I searched for "Yamaha montage user waveform" and found this

Tutorial: Importing a waveform into a performance:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXASiv3YfSE

And the number 8 from the same guy is also about importing samples. Both very short but exactly to the point...
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by mitya » Fri Dec 07, 2018 11:21 pm

Excellent - thank you. That helped a lot. However the problem I have now is it doesn't play the whole sample. It seems to behave like a drum hit. It plays, then quickly fades out. Is there any way I can tell it to play the whole duration of the WAV? And preferably without having to hold the key? Even, while I'm being demanding, optionally loop? Starting to sound more like an arp...

Continued thanks.

PS ZT - nice analogy, very apt for how I'm feeling trying to take all this in!
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by Stevie18 » Sat Dec 08, 2018 2:22 pm

What the best - and simplest - way is to do this really depends on the situation.

I think the best way which I have used a lot is a bit complex to setup. But it works flawlessly for me. The idea is to create a MIDI file which plays a tone for a very long time and use that as an arpeggio. Then you can trigger the arpeggio from the keyboard when you need to play the sound. You can stop it by stopping the arpeggio. Or you can mute it / stop the arpeggio by selecting a different scene.

You create a MIDI file which contains one note played at the start of the MIDI file. Say it is C1 which is the lowest key on the 61 keyboard. So you can trigger the waveform by hitting that key once. The important thing is that the note is played for at least as long as you need. I chose 1000 bars, which is fine for all of my applications.

The easiest is to create it using some DAW and save it as a MIDI file. Then you store the MIDI file on a USB stick (such a shame that the Montage cannot be mounted as a USB drive from the computer). You connect the USB file to the Montage, go to Utilities -> Content -> Load and select the .mid File from the "Content Type" dropdown. You should see the MIDI file and press it. It is loaded and the song screen opens. You press the name of the song. Then in the left lower corner of the screen you have a button named "User ARP". Press it. In the measure field set the end to 999. In the upper right corner you can name the arpeggio with some name you want. Mine is called "sample_trigger". Press "Store as User ARP" to store it. You created an arp which plays one note for a long time.

Now to use this create an "Init Normal (AWM2)" part and assign the waveform to it as described in the tutorial 8 mentioned above. Go to the common screen of the part and select the "Arpeggio" tab. In the common sub-tab of that set "Hold" to "on". Otherwise it will stop immediately after releasing the key. Make sure that the "Arp Part" and "Arp Master" button on the same sub tab are green so that arps are actually on for that part and the whole performance. Now go to the "Individual" sub tab and select the first arp. Use category search to find your arp (select from "Bank/Favorite" the "User" bank). Find your arp - it is the probably the only one shown - and select it. From this point on you should be able to trigger your sample by pressing any key on the keyboard. Stop it by pressing the stop hardware button.

Some fine tuning is probably still necessary: Go to the performance home screen, select the part and set the key range to only include your trigger key.

You may also have to make sure that the sample is played in the right tuning / speed. For that you can go to the screen where you create the waveform and press "Edit Wavform". The "Center Note" and "Tune Coarse" allow you to do that if it is off.

I could probably upload the MIDI file and a performance using it somewhere, not sure if the board allows this.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by Rara » Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:33 am

Have you thought of simply sequencing the piano riff instead? :?
Rather than trigger a long sample using midi.
then having to go thru all the cueing/trimming etc making sure the sample plays in time with the song and band.
methods described read so convoluted just for a piano riff.

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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by martyjones6294 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:53 pm

What Mitya describes might be the result of the amp EG that is on the part the sample is loaded into.

I have imported - for instance - the sound of an air raid siren as a .wav file. The sample is about 5 seconds long. I just hit the key and the entire sample plays. To make this happen, though, I had to increase the release of the amp envelope to a time that is as long as the sample is. Otherwise, the amp shuts down before the sample has a chance to finish.

To make this even easier, call up a stock performance that has a sound that has these characteristics - like the performance WIND BLOWS. It has 4 elements or so within the single part, so you can turn all of them off except element 1 and then change the waveform for element 1 to your sample .wav file. Now you can change the volume, key range, amp and filter EG's and so forth to get exactly what you need.

I don't see any way to do looping, though.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by Stevie18 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:26 am

Rara wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 10:33 am
Have you thought of simply sequencing the piano riff instead? :?
Rather than trigger a long sample using midi.
then having to go thru all the cueing/trimming etc making sure the sample plays in time with the song and band.
methods described read so convoluted just for a piano riff.

Rara 0-)
Obviously that would be a relatively easy solution, if the piano sound is actually coming from the Montage / MODX :lol: .
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by Stevie18 » Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:28 am

martyjones6294 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:53 pm
What Mitya describes might be the result of the amp EG that is on the part the sample is loaded into.

I have imported - for instance - the sound of an air raid siren as a .wav file. The sample is about 5 seconds long. I just hit the key and the entire sample plays. To make this happen, though, I had to increase the release of the amp envelope to a time that is as long as the sample is. Otherwise, the amp shuts down before the sample has a chance to finish.

To make this even easier, call up a stock performance that has a sound that has these characteristics - like the performance WIND BLOWS. It has 4 elements or so within the single part, so you can turn all of them off except element 1 and then change the waveform for element 1 to your sample .wav file. Now you can change the volume, key range, amp and filter EG's and so forth to get exactly what you need.

I don't see any way to do looping, though.
Yes, the amp EG is certainly the reason why a sound is fading out. However setting the release to a very high value is only a solution if the played sample is relatively short. 5 seconds is certainly not problem, 3 minutes is a problem, though. For that case the solution with the ARP works but the amp EG would fade out too early.

Looping is possible with external software like John Melas waveform editor.
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Re: Play sample during performance?

Unread post by parametric » Tue Dec 11, 2018 3:38 pm

martyjones6294 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 7:53 pm
I have imported - for instance - the sound of an air raid siren as a .wav file. The sample is about 5 seconds long. I just hit the key and the entire sample plays.
Just for interest, Marty, here's a song WITH an Air Raid Siren in . . . . (starts around 1'34")

It's from a little-known Kinks Album of 1969 - Arthur: Or The Decline And Fall Of The British Empire.






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