EX5 to computer USB connection

The EX5 features a unique Extended Synthesis system which incorporates a number of advanced tone generator technologies. AWM2, AN, FDSP and VL. The EX5 is one of the best keyboard Yamaha ever produced.

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djbrock
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EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by djbrock » Sun Apr 14, 2019 3:28 am

I've got an EX5 that I want to use with Cantabile. I'm running a Windows 7 computer and I bought a connection cable, midi to usb, from Newegg. It covers Windows 98 and above with a built-in driver. This looks the same as the UX16 but I didn't know about the UX16 at the time. My computer is not recognizing the keyboard as far as I can tell although the cable is recognized as Composite USB and USB Audio. It appears in the Devices list as Composite USB. Is it required to use the UX16 or will such a cable as mine work also? I've even attempted to install the UX16 drivers but they won't since this isn't the right cable.
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by Derek » Sun Apr 14, 2019 8:34 am

Hi,

You do not say what your USB MIDI interface is, and it would be worth understanding. It sounds like it is one of those cheap $10 "USB MIDI Leads", which are fraught with problems, so best avoided if you are serious about MIDI. 99% of MIDI problems that get reported to me for my librarians are due to these leads. this is primarily to do with SYSEX data transfer and general MIDI short message transfers via them are usually OK, but they are cheap for reason, and the drivers are not going to be high quality. UX16 drivers will only work with the UX16.

You say the EX5 is not recognised, but I do not know what you mean by that. If you were expecting the computer via the MIDI lead to recognise that you have an EX5, then that will never happen and thus expected behaviour. MIDI is a mechanism for transferring real time data as a universal common denominator with SYSTEM Exclusive extensions managing things specific to a synth (like patches), so any connecting software needs to be synth savvy.

Or did you mean you are getting no MIDI data through to the computer? Have you used something like MIDIOX to check for the presence or otherwise for incoming MIDI data. How is the EX5 setup in the UTILITY/MIDI pages? It is possible to turn MIDI transmission off, so worth checking that it is on.

Good call on Cantabile. You're the first person on this forum other than me to mention it! :) I am a heavy user of it.
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Derek Cook

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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by djbrock » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:11 pm

Derek, thank you for that quick and helpful reply. I've had a bit of a breakthrough today. Here is the actual products I bought. I bought two because I have a setup at church with a Fantom G8 and one at home with the Yamaha EX5 . New 2M Keyboard to PC USB MIDI Cable Converter PC to Music Keyboard Cord USB IN-OUT MIDI Interface Cable #K475

I was able to get some sound on both machines today. It comes out of the main speakers on the computer. Apparently there is a trick to getting it directed to the Synth Out that I haven't learned yet.

Regarding the EX5. When I swapped USB ports today I was able to get the keyboard plugin to play. It is the first time I've verified that I have MIDI input to Cantabile. Striking just one or two notes gives me different notes each time and/or different sounds, which I can't explain. I'm using an old Dell Inspirion laptop 1500 and that may be part of the problem. Latency may be an issue, too. Also the sound did fail and I had to switch USB ports again to get it working. The Cantabile program also crashed several times until I elected not to use the advanced GPU settings.

I'm using either ASIO4All or the WASAPI drivers. My MIDI UTILITY menu looks like this
Global Recv Ch = omn
MIDI Trns Ch = Ch1
MIDI-A Echo Back = off
Receive GM On = disable
Receive Pgm Chng = on
Device No = all
TrnsMIDI A = on
TrnsMIDI B = off
Local = on

On both machines I'm using a single piano plugin to try to get things going, 4Front R-Piano 1. I'm new to MIDI and want to establish Cantabile as my universal device so that I can practice at home and play at church using the same song setups. Presently I am simply trying to get the system to work with an input, plugin, and an ouput. My computers may or may not be sufficient for the task. The one at church is newer and runs Windows 10. I was able to see the events and didn't notice any latency issues with it. In both cases I have an input from my Main Keyboard which runs to the plugin in Cantabile, then it automatically has a Stereo Out which goes to the Main Speakers. I think this should be routed to the Synth Out, which would put it back into the keyboard and through the house system if my thinking is correct. I am unable to make a connection to the Synth Out. Perhaps it is a Stereo issue.
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by Derek » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:30 pm

Hi

Not much time to reply, as I am shutting down for the night. To be honest, I would not be trusting MIDI to a $3.50 MIDI lead.

Try something like a USB MIDI SPORT UNO (https://m-audio.com/products/view/uno). I have a MIDI SPORT 2x2 and it is rock solid. But you also need to consider how to get the audio out - do not rely on PC speaker/headphone socket they are very noisy. In that case something like a Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 will fit the job (and give you a MIDI interface). This is what I use in my gig rack.

Cantabile is quite adept at letting you move setups between home and stage. I do it all the time. Just make sure that MIDI and Audio ports are named the same in each setup, and Cantabile can hide the port differences. E.g. I have the 2i4 and 2x2 in my GIG Rack, but a MIDI Express 128 in my studio. The Cantabile config on the respective PCs hides those differences

I have two guides that may be of interest to you on my Guides Page, which show how I built my Gig Rack, and then how I setup Cantabile. Check out the first two guides on the page.

I am of course happy to answer Cantabile questions as best I can over here, but you will probably get quicker support over at https://community.cantabilesoftware.com/ given the number of experts who hang out over there (so the load is shared and there is usually somebody about).
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by SysExJohn » Tue Apr 16, 2019 10:48 am

There's your problem, the very cheap MIDI to USB cable.

Like Derek, I wouldn't trust it to do a proper job at all.

Buy a decent, branded product from a reputable manufacturer.
Probably the cheapest reasonable one is the M-Audio Midisport 1 x 1.
As far as I know that one works properly.

JohnG.
UW500; 2xMU1000 + PLGs AN, DX, VL, VH & PF; SC8850; EWI4000s + VL70m; Samson Graphite 49.
Privia PX-560, AN1x, Novation X-Station 25. E-MU 02 cardbus + 1616m x 2. Sonar 7 PE and now CbB. XGworks.
Garritan GPO4 and GPO5, COMB2, JABB3, IO, Organs, Steinway, World, Harps ... and now CFX Concert Grand.
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by Miks » Tue Apr 16, 2019 11:01 am

I can vouch for the iConnectivity mio - it never ever let me down 'till today! (Y)

Best thing is: it's 'USB MIDI Class Compliant' which means there's NO need for drivers to be installed. Real Plug'n'Play.
My (key related) gear (in alphabetical order):
Ferrofish: B4000+
Kawai: K1 II
Korg: M1 (up'd to EX, w/ 'Cool Blue'), M1REX (w/ 'Cool Blue'), Poly-800
Roland: D-50, D-110, D-550, PG-1000
Yamaha: AW1600, DX7IID (w/ 'Cool Blue'), EX5R, RM50, RX5, SY99 (w/ 'Cool Blue'), TG500, TX-802, YMM2
Sector101: SYEMB05 (5x), SYEMB06 (3x), EXFLM2 (1kit), MCD Sweet16 (1x), WaveBlade 8MB Card (1x) & 1x Programmer Unit for WaveBlade
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by djbrock » Thu Apr 18, 2019 7:45 pm

Thank you for the replies. I've also got a decent MIDI cable and a M-Audio Fast Track C400 which works on my Windows 7 machine. Derek, I had set this keyboard up years ago according to your guide for layering extra sounds. It has worked great.

I have been successful in using a regular MIDI cable and the M-Audio box BUT I have to use the ASIO4ALL driver. The M-Audio driver gives me the same errors in playback as the cheap USB cable I started with. I also had to reduce the bit rate from 512 down to 128 to avoid latency. So at this point, I've got two VST sounds in Cantabile. One will only route to the Main Speakers; the other will route to the Main Speakers and it has a MIDI Out which I've routed to the M-Audio. I also bought another cable and attached it to the keyboard MIDI Input. Which leads me to the next question below.

Let me ask one other rookie question. With a proper cable, running from MIDI Out to the USB then back to MIDI In, should the sound then be processed on through the house system? Or am I wrong about that? Do I have to rely on my M-Audio box or the computer sound card to get the sound back into the house system? Thank you for your input. It has been helpful.
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by Derek » Thu Apr 18, 2019 8:08 pm

Sorry, but I am struggling to understand your configurations and thus be able to offer guidance. It is most unusual that an M-Audio driver would give such errors as their drivers are renowned to be rock solid. I am wondering if it might be best to clear your drivers out and start again, just n case something has gotten corrupted.

I would uninstall all audio/MIDI drivers, and use something like USB OBLIVION to clean out the registry.

Note, make sure you do a full backup first before doing something so drastic.
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by djbrock » Thu Apr 18, 2019 10:54 pm

Thank you, Derek. The system that is working is
=======
Keyboard Midi Out to M-Audio Midi In.
M-Audio to computer via USB.
M-Audio Midi Out to keyboard Midi In (I don't know if this is working or not)
*Cantibile Settings*
Audio Driver ASIO4ALL
Main Keyboard In from M-Audio
Main Speakers Out on the computer.
Synth Out to M-Audio box
=========
I did uninstall and reinstall the M-Audio drivers but I didn't have any luck with that. I can troubleshoot that later. I'm satisfied that the program is working because I'm really trying to test cantabile to see if this is something I can use both at home and at church. My operating system is Windows 7. That's the last supported version I know of for this particular M-Audio device.

I'm really more curious about the other question. Am I wrong to assume that this USB setup should send sound back to the M-Audio box which should then go into the midi input port and come out in my house system? If I know the answer to that question then that gives me more direction to go.
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by Derek » Fri Apr 19, 2019 8:58 am

Hi,

So the external MIDI routing looks fine. I still struggle to see why you need ASIO4ALL. It is usually only needed where drivers are poorly written, or where you do not have an ASIO driver, or where you are trying to target multiple ASIO devices. Of course if it works.....!

I assume when you talk about the M-Audio box, you mean this M-Audio Fast Track C400? I am not familiar with this device, but on a quick look it appears to be a device specifically for
Fast Track C400 can be used with qualified Windows or Mac computer running Pro Tools or qualified third party software.
I've never seen a device manual with that sort of statement in it, so I do wonder if there is something funny in the drivers specifically optimised for Pro-Tools that Cantabile does not like. Do you have a chance of trying out another interface. I have used Cantabile with Focusrite interfaces and they have been fine. I am currently using the Scarlett 2i4, or on my DAW computer it is a legacy EMU1212 PCI card. No trouble at all, and no need for ASIO.

To answer your question about sending output to he USB device the answer should be yes, as this is what I do. My Gig PC is running Cantabile and and Cantabile audio is routed to the audio outputs of the Scarlett USB interface.

If you look in my Cantabile Guide (see link in previous post) you can see how my Audio and MIDI routes are set up. What do yours look like?
Regards
Derek Cook

http://www.carregddu.co.uk
http://www.echoes-music.co.uk
http://www.xfactory-librarians.co.uk
http://www.ex5tech.co.uk
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Re: EX5 to computer USB connection

Unread post by djbrock » Sat Apr 20, 2019 5:06 am

I tried my Komplete Audio 6 interface tonight on the EX5 and Windows 7. I got noise as before. Unfortunately, which I switched back to the M-Audio box I also got the same noise no matter which ASIO driver I tried to use. What was working is now broken. Much of the time there was no sound at all but input would register. I'm looking at your guide but it is too much to digest at this late hour.

Update: I tried my Widows 10 machine with the Komplete Audio 6 (I use it on this machine for recording vocals for books) and it would receive input but there was no output that I could hear regardless of Audio Engine used or ports.

UPDATE: I worked with a friend's son today ad we got the Komplete Audio 6 working on the Windows 10 machine. So I'm going to go from there for now. I can focus on learning Cantabile and Gig Performer.
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