DX11 repair

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EB5AGV
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DX11 repair

Unread post by EB5AGV » Tue May 14, 2019 12:02 pm

Hi all,

I got a DX11 pretty cheap, as it didn't even power up :o

I have fixed the power supply :dance: and now it mostly works... What happens is that the first 11 keys don't work. And it is not apparently a physical problem, as all measure OK (trace continuity and such). I need to look into detail with the oscilloscope, to check the scanning of the keys. The faulty ones are not sent either as MIDI commands and that is a big hint.

But well, while I find the solution to that problem, I have been able to load, using MIDIOX, several sound banks to the unit, which works fine besides the first 11 keys :clap: . But I wonder if DX11 performances are also updateable via SysEx. I have looked for information about this and I have not found a definitive answer.

Thanks!

Jose
Jose Gavila

Yamaha DX7, TX81Z, DX11, 5x SY77, TG77, SPX990, SY85, A3000, AN1x, EX5, EX5R, EX7, MOTIF RACK XS, DGX660, Genos (and 1992' FJ1200 :mrgreen: )

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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by Rara » Wed May 15, 2019 1:09 pm

The DX7 I had years ago had the same issue with bottom 11 dead keys,
I checked the key PCB and wasn't the problem, I found the little black "rubber" contact
pads to be the problem. these things for example http://www.bustedgear.com/partz_KCS10.html
I cleaned all of them, working well after that.

Rara 0-)
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by EB5AGV » Wed May 15, 2019 1:36 pm

Hello Rara,

I was about to write an update :)

The DX11 uses a long rubber double strip (for both contacts), running all the 61 keys. And, yes, it has lost some conducting paint, curiously most on those lower 11 keys. But, luckily, it is a part which is still available, so I will order a new strip to get back a fully working DX11 :dance: , except for the original performances, which I hope someone could help me with.

Jose
Jose Gavila

Yamaha DX7, TX81Z, DX11, 5x SY77, TG77, SPX990, SY85, A3000, AN1x, EX5, EX5R, EX7, MOTIF RACK XS, DGX660, Genos (and 1992' FJ1200 :mrgreen: )

Akai S5000
Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Pigments, Analog Lab 4
Casio CT-X5000
Kawai K1, K1-II
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Modartt Pianoteq 6 Stage
NI Komplete 12, Maschine Mk3, Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by Miks » Wed May 15, 2019 2:56 pm

Rara wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:09 pm
The DX7 I had years ago had the same issue with bottom 11 dead keys, I checked the key PCB and wasn't the problem, I found the little black "rubber" contact pads to be the problem.
Are you sure you're talking about the correct synth??? The DX7 Mk.I definitely has and had NO such rubber contacts! All switches under the 'foil' surface are tactile switches, and here's how the keybed's contacts look:
DX7 Mk.I Keyboard contacts.jpg
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by EB5AGV » Wed May 15, 2019 2:59 pm

Miks wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:56 pm
Rara wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:09 pm
The DX7 I had years ago had the same issue with bottom 11 dead keys, I checked the key PCB and wasn't the problem, I found the little black "rubber" contact pads to be the problem.
Are you sure you're talking about the correct synth??? The DX7 Mk.I definitely has and had NO such rubber contacts! All switches under the 'foil' surface are tactile switches, and here's how the keybed's contacts look:
DX7 Mk.I Keyboard contacts.jpg
Exactly, that is the famous FS keybed, one of the best I have found so far on synths!. She should be talking of another unit.

Jose
Jose Gavila

Yamaha DX7, TX81Z, DX11, 5x SY77, TG77, SPX990, SY85, A3000, AN1x, EX5, EX5R, EX7, MOTIF RACK XS, DGX660, Genos (and 1992' FJ1200 :mrgreen: )

Akai S5000
Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Pigments, Analog Lab 4
Casio CT-X5000
Kawai K1, K1-II
Korg M1, Wavestation, X3, Triton Rack, Triton Le 76
Modartt Pianoteq 6 Stage
NI Komplete 12, Maschine Mk3, Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2
Roland D-50, JV-1080, XV-3080, Fantom G6
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by YamahaUser » Wed May 15, 2019 3:10 pm

EB5AGV wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:36 pm
[...]except for the original performances, which I hope someone could help me with.
This appears to be a SYX file of the DX11 Performances...
http://www.sysexdb.com/binaryview.aspx? ... ssage=1942
...but it might be few bytes short, based on examining it with a hex editor. The last Performance, "I'm ZOMBI" appears to be truncated.

I don't currently have a model capable of loading the file connected, so you'll have to determine for yourself if it will load without error. Please let us know whether the file works.
Yamaha A3000V2, A4000, MEP4, Motif XS6, Motif XF6, YS200
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parametric
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by parametric » Wed May 15, 2019 3:36 pm

Just a tip Jose - when you install the new strip . . .

I had a contacts problem with my Fusion6HD a while back . . .

Strip of four contacts removed for cleaning.JPG
Strip of four contacts removed for cleaning.JPG (75.3 KiB) Viewed 445 times


Note the appearance of the contact rubbers that are still in place.

The upper contact looks to have a deeper "hole" than the lower one . . . .

It is important that you fit the new strip so that it looks the same as the others.

(It WILL fit the wrong way round (annoyingly) and will then NOT work properly)

The difference between the two contacts for each key - is what provides the correct TIMING for

Note-on, Note-off messages, and also facilitates the velocity calculation . . .

As you can imagine - getting this reversed - will totally mess those notes up. :roll:

parametric
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by EB5AGV » Wed May 15, 2019 3:40 pm

YamahaUser wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:10 pm
EB5AGV wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:36 pm
[...]except for the original performances, which I hope someone could help me with.
This appears to be a SYX file of the DX11 Performances...
http://www.sysexdb.com/binaryview.aspx? ... ssage=1942
...but it might be few bytes short, based on examining it with a hex editor. The last Performance, "I'm ZOMBI" appears to be truncated.

I don't currently have a model capable of loading the file connected, so you'll have to determine for yourself if it will load without error. Please let us know whether the file works.
Yes, I had found that file but does not load on the DX11 :(

Jose
Jose Gavila

Yamaha DX7, TX81Z, DX11, 5x SY77, TG77, SPX990, SY85, A3000, AN1x, EX5, EX5R, EX7, MOTIF RACK XS, DGX660, Genos (and 1992' FJ1200 :mrgreen: )

Akai S5000
Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Pigments, Analog Lab 4
Casio CT-X5000
Kawai K1, K1-II
Korg M1, Wavestation, X3, Triton Rack, Triton Le 76
Modartt Pianoteq 6 Stage
NI Komplete 12, Maschine Mk3, Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2
Roland D-50, JV-1080, XV-3080, Fantom G6
Steinberg Cubase Pro 10, The Grand 3
StudioLogic SL88 Studio
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by EB5AGV » Wed May 15, 2019 3:45 pm

parametric wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:36 pm
Just a tip Jose - when you install the new strip . . .

I had a contacts problem with my Fusion6HD a while back . . .


Strip of four contacts removed for cleaning.JPG

Note the appearance of the contact rubbers that are still in place.

The upper contact looks to have a deeper "hole" than the lower one . . . .

It is important that you fit the new strip so that it looks the same as the others.

(It WILL fit the wrong way round (annoyingly) and will then NOT work properly)

The difference between the two contacts for each key - is what provides the correct TIMING for

Note-on, Note-off messages, and also facilitates the velocity calculation . . .

As you can imagine - getting this reversed - will totally mess those notes up. :roll:

parametric
OK, thanks for the tip. I have replaced very similar contacts on a Roland PCR-M50 and, yes, you need to be sure they are correctly positioned.

On the DX11 though they use a different mechanism: it is just a long linear double conductive rubber band, with some cuts made on it so there is no interaction among different scanning signals. So the positioning could be also critical if the cuts are not symmetric :naughty:

I will add a page on my WEB with the DX11 repair as soon as I get a replacement for the rubber contact band and fit it.

Jose
Jose Gavila

Yamaha DX7, TX81Z, DX11, 5x SY77, TG77, SPX990, SY85, A3000, AN1x, EX5, EX5R, EX7, MOTIF RACK XS, DGX660, Genos (and 1992' FJ1200 :mrgreen: )

Akai S5000
Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Pigments, Analog Lab 4
Casio CT-X5000
Kawai K1, K1-II
Korg M1, Wavestation, X3, Triton Rack, Triton Le 76
Modartt Pianoteq 6 Stage
NI Komplete 12, Maschine Mk3, Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2
Roland D-50, JV-1080, XV-3080, Fantom G6
Steinberg Cubase Pro 10, The Grand 3
StudioLogic SL88 Studio
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by YamahaUser » Wed May 15, 2019 4:40 pm

EB5AGV wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 3:40 pm
Yes, I had found that file but does not load on the DX11 :(
I thought that might be the case.

Besides the "I'm ZOMBI" data, the End of Exclusive (EOF) byte (F7) (and checksum?) are missing.

I've experienced situations where Yamaha synths will complain about a file but most of the data will load anyway. You might try using a hex editor, adding F7 to the end of the file, and see what happens.
Yamaha A3000V2, A4000, MEP4, Motif XS6, Motif XF6, YS200
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Re: DX11 repair

Unread post by Rara » Thu May 16, 2019 3:48 am

Miks wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 2:56 pm
Rara wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 1:09 pm
The DX7 I had years ago had the same issue with bottom 11 dead keys, I checked the key PCB and wasn't the problem, I found the little black "rubber" contact pads to be the problem.
Are you sure you're talking about the correct synth??? The DX7 Mk.I definitely has and had NO such rubber contacts! All switches under the 'foil' surface are tactile switches, and here's how the keybed's contacts look:
DX7 Mk.I Keyboard contacts.jpg
I stand corrected :-)
Looks like I have the innards of keyboards mixed up :oops: . I last had a DX7 in 1997, I haven't seen one since.
I do remember green corrosion inside the DX as well. that and doing my casio or korg at the time.

Rara 0-)
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