Sharing user performances

Covers the Yamaha MODX6, MODX7 and MODX8

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DeltaJockey
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Sharing user performances

Unread post by DeltaJockey » Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:03 pm

A while back I used samplerobot to port a Montage/MODX performance of a free Steinway grand I like and use occasionally on my Kronos.
The samples were created by Iowa State Uni. It is freely available on the web, and is advertised as such. It's not a particularly sophisticated sampleset, but it has an organic realism that I like, though only has 3 sample layers. It also has some imperfections which I overlook. I tweaked it somewhat for the MODX, however.....the gotcha is.......I added the release damper samples from a Bosendorfer performance.

Does this mean I can no longer share it with everyone, as even though the Bosendorfer was available for download when the MODX was first released, it is still a commercial library subject to copyright?
Just thought I'd ask, as I wouldn't want to infringe on any IP. :?

I also just thought it might be appreciated by other Montage/MODX users :D
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by Macke » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:07 am

DeltaJockey wrote:
Fri Nov 08, 2019 11:03 pm
A while back I used samplerobot to port a Montage/MODX performance of a free Steinway grand I like and use occasionally on my Kronos.
The samples were created by Iowa State Uni. It is freely available on the web, and is advertised as such. It's not a particularly sophisticated sampleset, but it has an organic realism that I like, though only has 3 sample layers. It also has some imperfections which I overlook. I tweaked it somewhat for the MODX, however.....the gotcha is.......I added the release damper samples from a Bosendorfer performance.

Does this mean I can no longer share it with everyone, as even though the Bosendorfer was available for download when the MODX was first released, it is still a commercial library subject to copyright?
Just thought I'd ask, as I wouldn't want to infringe on any IP. :?

I also just thought it might be appreciated by other Montage/MODX users :D
Hi DeltaJockey,

Thank you for considering sharing your work.

I really can't tell if you're allowed or not based on the information available. I did some research below but if anybody else like to comment that would be welcome.

I just checked the Bösendorfer Piano for Montage product page and it did not contain any disclaimer regarding usage.

I also checked the Bösendorfer for Montage pack list and could not find any pointers to if it's royalty free or not there either.

Finally, still on the product page, I followed this link ( Learn more about synth libraries ) and that page contain the following phrase:
All of the sounds included in each library are royalty-free so you can use them for commercial productions without paying any license fees.
Please note that this page referers to libraries with "voices" and the Motif XF, MOFX generation of boards and seem a bit outdated but moving forward and viewing the catalog Montage/MODX libraries are included.
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by DeltaJockey » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:41 am

thanks for you reply Macke.
I have to just check, but I realised that I might be ok there, because I have the Bosendorfer and the Steinway loaded into user memory at the same time. This means that it may only work if other people have the Bosendorfer library loaded already.
If I remember, I loaded the user performance in, then added the release sample and resaved to a new performance.

The Bosendorfer sample was not included in my user performance backup...I will double check that!
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by Macke » Sat Nov 09, 2019 8:55 am

DeltaJockey wrote:
Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:41 am
thanks for you reply Macke.
I have to just check, but I realised that I might be ok there, because I have the Bosendorfer and the Steinway loaded into user memory at the same time. This means that it may only work if other people have the Bosendorfer library loaded already.
If I remember, I loaded the user performance in, then added the release sample and resaved to a new performance.

The Bosendorfer sample was not included in my user performance backup...I will double check that!
If the waveform indeed was not part of your custom library file then it's important to state in which library slot the Bosendorfer library was installed at the time the performance was created, else the keyoff part/element will not generate sound.

I believe you can find the bank/slot information when editing the actual element pointing toward the waveform used.

As long as there is just a few waveforms that need "mapping" to get the performance fully working it could be stated in an attached text file which waveform to "link" to together with the library file. This would also mitigate the whole question about IP infringement.

EDIT
If you decide on moving forward with sharing, please do so in the dedicated MODX User Sound area of this forum found here: Performances User Waveforms

Link to the Yamaha MODX User Sounds where additional sub forums have been created for different types of performances.

Limitations
Please note that the forum does not accept most of the filetypes the MODX/MONTAGE creates so place / compress the file(s) into a .zip file and you should be able to upload without issues.

Also, I believe there is a size limit for uploads to the forum and I'm not entirely sure what that limit is, but Saul (owner of YM) hinted it could be somewhere around 100MB/file so please also take this into account.

If the library is bigger than this then you might need to split the file into multiple .zip compressing it. This can be done with for example 7-zip but please let me know if there is any issues and we'll help you get around it.
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by DeltaJockey » Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:05 am

thanks for your reply Macke.
I was just thinking that if a user had the Bosie library installed, it would just pick up the part I used. If not, the performance would still sound as created, just with the release sounds off, which some people prefer anyway.

I might need to think about all this first, as the info you have given me, sounds like a lot to accurately convey and execute. I was hoping the process might be simple, but if it becomes complex and overwhelming, I'll need to leave it for now.
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by Macke » Sun Nov 10, 2019 9:44 am

DeltaJockey wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:05 am
thanks for your reply Macke.
I was just thinking that if a user had the Bosie library installed, it would just pick up the part I used. If not, the performance would still sound as created, just with the release sounds off, which some people prefer anyway.
Hi DeltaJockey,
The performance will indeed sound as created without the release note sounds so in that remark you assume correctly.
DeltaJockey wrote:
Sun Nov 10, 2019 5:05 am
I might need to think about all this first, as the info you have given me, sounds like a lot to accurately convey and execute. I was hoping the process might be simple, but if it becomes complex and overwhelming, I'll need to leave it for now.
My intention was not to discurage you from sharing but mearly getting some known limitations in to the open.

Also, by using the additional waveforms from a second library added another level of complexity.

How big is your sample robot library file? My guess is that it exceed 100 MB in size?

If you need help sorting this out, feel free to share the library file using for example link to dropbox, google drive or equivalent and if posdible provide the names of the Bosendorfer waveforms used and I'll try and help you sort the splitting bit.

The User Sounds part of the forum is new and we might need to adapt it to simplify for everyone willing to share. It will be some trial and error I'm sure before we find that sweet spot.
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by DeltaJockey » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:02 pm

Hi Macke,

that's fine, I know you are just pointing out the details that need to be. I do intend to get it out, just not as soon as I had expected.
I guess I naively thought of just dumping it out there with a short description, but neglected the realities of doing this, (which is unlike me, being a stickler for detail :o ).


The performance with the Bosie sample, is actually version2, as my original, and the program I use on the Kronos, doesn't have release samples. There is also a free vst out there which has been produced, but for some reason, doesn't sound as good.

I may just upload version 1 as a start, but you have pointed out another very important catch. The Performance is actually 499MB. Again, not sure what I was initially thinking!

Where is the best place to put it, given the size? I don't have a download site myself, and would prefer not to have to set up my own. Haven't checked, but is this too big for Mondo? The recently set up download site on this forum?
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by Saul » Sun Nov 10, 2019 11:08 pm

Just thought I would mention that although I recommended an upload file size limit of 100mb that is not actually a hard limit. You CAN upload large files but I guess the thing to bear in mind is not everyone is on a fast connection. The bigger the file the more problematic it might be for people to download?

If anyone is wanting to upload a file larger than 100mb and you have problems can you either let me or Macke a know and we'll try and sort it out?
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by DeltaJockey » Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 am

thanks Saul,

I appreciate your input, and potential help. I understand that file size can be a problem for many folk. I've been there myself!
Fortunately, though living in a moderately remote region in Australia, I have wireless which puts 1GB of data within doable range now.
the 499 will probably take me some time to upload in anycase.

When I've got the file sorted out, I'll get back to you guys about the logistics if I need help.


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Macke
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Re: Sharing user performances

Unread post by Macke » Thu Nov 14, 2019 7:24 am

DeltaJockey wrote:
Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:07 am
thanks Saul,

I appreciate your input, and potential help. I understand that file size can be a problem for many folk. I've been there myself!
Fortunately, though living in a moderately remote region in Australia, I have wireless which puts 1GB of data within doable range now.
the 499 will probably take me some time to upload in anycase.

When I've got the file sorted out, I'll get back to you guys about the logistics if I need help.


Chris
Hi DeltaJockey,

We all have different ability to share and upload speed and data caps could be a big limitation in some cases.

Just let us know and we'll help out in any way we can. (Y)
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