MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:58 pm

GregC wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 am
I am a Kronos owner. 8 yrs. Seeing if Korg is finally going to make a move in the +$3000 keyboard or w/s
niche. Potentially it shakes everything up in that niche.

and Fantom is still very interesting but not complete. If Roland does a major OS upgrade
that might be enough to sway me from MODX.

I think MODX is a great board. But I have to consider other great alternatives.
It doesn't seem to be the right fit to compare the Kronos or Fantom to the MODX. The MODX is half the price & is not a flagship synth like the other 2 are, so it's kind of like comparing a Mercedes car to a Kia. The Montage would be a better Synth for comparison to the Kronos & Fantom. :wink:
The good thing about the MODX is that you get all the sounds & most of the functionality for half the price, so unless money is no object, it would make sense to go with the MODX as one of the keyboards just for the sounds & functionality at that price point alone.

If money is indeed no object, it would make more sense to drop the MODX from the equation and consider the Montage against the Kronos &/or Fantom...

Things will really become interesting when Yamaha add a new VA engine to the Montage/MODX in the new year! :think: :dance:
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by GregC » Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:44 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:58 pm
GregC wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:58 am
I am a Kronos owner. 8 yrs. Seeing if Korg is finally going to make a move in the +$3000 keyboard or w/s
niche. Potentially it shakes everything up in that niche.

and Fantom is still very interesting but not complete. If Roland does a major OS upgrade
that might be enough to sway me from MODX.

I think MODX is a great board. But I have to consider other great alternatives.
It doesn't seem to be the right fit to compare the Kronos or Fantom to the MODX. The MODX is half the price & is not a flagship synth like the other 2 are, so it's kind of like comparing a Mercedes car to a Kia. The Montage would be a better Synth for comparison to the Kronos & Fantom. :wink:
The good thing about the MODX is that you get all the sounds & most of the functionality for half the price, so unless money is no object, it would make sense to go with the MODX as one of the keyboards just for the sounds & functionality at that price point alone.

If money is indeed no object, it would make more sense to drop the MODX from the equation and consider the Montage against the Kronos &/or Fantom...

Things will really become interesting when Yamaha add a new VA engine to the Montage/MODX in the new year! :think: :dance:
not to bicker, but IMO, Montage is not twice the keyboard as MODX.
I realize the key bed is significantly different. esp for the 88.

I seem to recall Yamaha called Montage a 'performance synth '.

As you can tell, I have not seen enough reason to buy a Montage.
we all know keyboard players have their preferences.

simply, Yamaha has done a sterling job making MODX attractive, across the board.
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by pologuy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:10 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:58 pm
Things will really become interesting when Yamaha add a new VA engine to the Montage/MODX in the new year! :think: :dance:
:?:
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:00 pm

GregC wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:44 pm
not to bicker, but IMO, Montage is not twice the keyboard as MODX.
I realize the key bed is significantly different. esp for the 88.

I seem to recall Yamaha called Montage a 'performance synth '.

As you can tell, I have not seen enough reason to buy a Montage.
we all know keyboard players have their preferences.

simply, Yamaha has done a sterling job making MODX attractive, across the board.
I agree that the Montage is not twice the synth of the MODX, which was kind of my point when it comes to comparing the MODX against the Fantom or Kronos, because just like the Montage, neither the Fantom nor the Kronos are twice the synth in terms of value, despite the more than double price tag they have...there is no contest when it comes to value per dollar, and the quality/variety of sounds/Performances on the MODX are right up there with the best synths on the planet IMO. I would say the MODX is likely somewhere between 75-95% the value of the Montage, despite being half the price, depending on who you ask ... and likely somewhere in that range against the Fantom or Kronos IMO

However, as you alluded to above, there is a wider gap between the MODX8 vs Montage8, than there is between the MODX6/7 vs Montage6/7, specifically for those who value pianos to sound/feel as authentic & as great as possible. Unlike the MODX6/7, the MODX8 doesn't trigger sample velocities evenly across the GHS keybed, whereas the Montage8 does on its BHE keybed. If you read my much earlier posts you would see how frustrated the MODX8 made me in trying to play pianos specifically, while trying to decide what new Synth/Workstation to buy. Otherwise I wouldn't have paid twice as much for a keyboard that is 3 times the weight, as those are definite selling points for the MODX over the Montage & other keyboards on the market!

The only reasons I can see for you to buy a Montage over the MODX would be (I wasn't sure how you value pianos specifically, so for simplicity I'll only compare the MODX6/7 vs Montage6/7):
- if you needed maximum Polyphony and used FM-X sounds nearly as much as AWM2, therefore the Montage gives you 128 + 128 (via 2 DSP processors) vs the MODX's 128 + 64 (off the same 1 DSP processor)
- if you wanted to have a lot of libraries & your own wave file samples loaded and ready to go in User memory, whereby they amount to more than 1GB in size, then the Montage would have more value. The MODX has 1GB of User memory, whereas the Montage has 1.75GB. (again for piano enthusiasts, that adds up really fast, making the Montage far more valuable)
- if organs were important and you wanted more physical draw bar controls available, the Montage would provide more value as it has 8 sliders vs MODX only has 4
- if having more controls for playing live (knobs/sliders), then the Montage again has 8 sliders & 8 knobs, vs MODX's 4 & 4
- if you value having Aftertouch functionality in a synth, then the Montage is going to more value
- there is also much internal functionality where the Montage's limit is 8 and the MODX's limit is 4
- if you valued changing Programs & Scenes within the programs and didn't want to change much via the touch screen, especially when playing live, then the Montage has an easier route to changing 8 Scenes & has Live Set buttons, that makes changing Performances, Patterns, Banks/Sets, etc. via the touch of physical buttons with no need to ever touch the Screen
- if you value DAW integration & other inter-connectivity with ease, as well as access to SampleRobot, etc., then the Montage would provide this functionality
- if you value having the latest functionality/new features via OS Updates as soon as they have been released without having to wait months for it, then the Montage would give you this ability
- if you needed the highest quality inputs/outputs with the maximum amount of headroom to avoid loss of quality running close to highest levels, then the Montage would provide this to you
- if you value the quality of the keybed, then the Montage has the better quality keys with less issues overall

For many people, these types of added value listed above don't hold as much value as they do to others, thereby making the MODX the clear winner due to its price and weight! I am guessing that these don't hold enough weight for your personal preference either to justify a Montage, and I totally respect that.

For me, the holy grail of synthesizers has always been the ability to emulate real acoustic instruments, as well as have the most awesome huge synth/voice-like sounds with maximum polyphony on a single keyboard. And for me, the last synth I had/programmed prior to moving towards VST instruments, is the DX7II ... so you can see the appeal that the second FM-X engine is for me, and I got really good at programming the DX7II to sound just like an analog synth! I only wished it had more polyphony like the Montage does... And I am one of the few that really utilizes Aftertouch to the Max ... I can't imagine how else I would play an electric guitar solo that has the ability to do picked notes, hammer on notes, muted notes, harmonics, whammy bar bends, vibrato of strings, all while being able to squeal into feedback at will & to varying degrees!
However probably in the past 10 or so years, the emulation of real acoustic pianos specifically has become the new holy grail for me, making the Montage the only option for me. It also became this way even more so in the past 3 or 4 years, because I can only write songs on a piano (I've never been able to write on a regular synth), and since my 120+ year old upright is no longer tunable, I therefore couldn't enjoy sitting & playing an acoustic piano, nor write songs anymore. I should add that I love variety, especially pianos, but the Yamaha C7 has been my favorite since forever. The CFX is the closest, next best piano to a C7! And in terms of all the pianos I've tried both on synths or VST virtual instruments, as well as all the ones I've heard demoed/compared on YouTube, etc., the CFX is by far the closest sounding/feeling piano to an actual acoustic grand that I've heard &/or experienced playing to date, which makes the Montage8 the best synth on the planet for me. Currently I'm using headphones, but I can finally enjoy/experience playing an acoustic piano and write songs again!! :dance:

I've only experienced this once to date, and since then I've been saving my money so that I soon should be able to experience it all the time ... but nothing has come so close to the experience of sounding & feeling exactly like playing an actual acoustic grand as when I tried the Montage8 (CFX Concert with the reverb off) at the music store through a pair of Adam Audio A7X's. :music-guitarred:
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:04 pm

pologuy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 7:10 pm
vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:58 pm
Things will really become interesting when Yamaha add a new VA engine to the Montage/MODX in the new year! :think: :dance:
:?:
All I can say is that I've already predicted the last OS update fairly close to the mark, so I'm hoping to be 2 for 2, and Yamaha want to compete against Korg, Roland, Nord, etc., so this lines up with their new "out of the box thinking" software based roadmap!! :wink:
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by pologuy » Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:10 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:00 pm

For me, the holy grail of synthesizers has always been the ability to emulate real acoustic instruments, as well as have the most awesome huge synth/voice-like sounds with maximum polyphony on a single keyboard. And for me, the last synth I had/programmed prior to moving towards VST instruments, is the DX7II ... so you can see the appeal that the second FM-X engine is for me, and I got really good at programming the DX7II to sound just like an analog synth! I only wished it had more polyphony like the Montage does... And I am one of the few that really utilizes Aftertouch to the Max ... I can't imagine how else I would play an electric guitar solo that has the ability to do picked notes, hammer on notes, muted notes, harmonics, whammy bar bends, vibrato of strings, all while being able to squeal into feedback at will & to varying degrees!
However probably in the past 10 or so years, the emulation of real acoustic pianos specifically has become the new holy grail for me, making the Montage the only option for me. It also became this way even more so in the past 3 or 4 years, because I can only write songs on a piano (I've never been able to write on a regular synth), and since my 120+ year old upright is no longer tunable, I therefore couldn't enjoy sitting & playing an acoustic piano, nor write songs anymore. I should add that I love variety, especially pianos, but the Yamaha C7 has been my favorite since forever. The CFX is the closest, next best piano to a C7! And in terms of all the pianos I've tried both on synths or VST virtual instruments, as well as all the ones I've heard demoed/compared on YouTube, etc., the CFX is by far the closest sounding/feeling piano to an actual acoustic grand that I've heard &/or experienced playing to date, which makes the Montage8 the best synth on the planet for me. Currently I'm using headphones, but I can finally enjoy/experience playing an acoustic piano and write songs again!! :dance:

I've only experienced this once to date, and since then I've been saving my money so that I soon should be able to experience it all the time ... but nothing has come so close to the experience of sounding & feeling exactly like playing an actual acoustic grand as when I tried the Montage8 (CFX Concert with the reverb off) at the music store through a pair of Adam Audio A7X's. :music-guitarred:
Well, since this thread has already gone off the rails, lol...

What about the free Yamaha Bosendorfer Imperial download...?

Have you ever heard the Ravenscroft 275 VST...?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kV4__tns0Q
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:25 pm

pologuy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:10 pm
Well, since this thread has already gone off the rails, lol...

What about the free Yamaha Bosendorfer Imperial download...?
Have you ever heard the Ravenscroft 275 VST...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kV4__tns0Q
Yes and Yes. To my ears the CFX on the Montage is better & more realistic as an authentic acoustic grand.
Bosendorfer is great, very well done, and I love the sound of the Ravenscroft 275 also...heard them both many times on many different vids, plus I already have/play the Bosendorfer on my Montage, but it's not even close to the CFX on the Montage IMHO!
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by GregC » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:06 am

vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:00 pm
[
- if you needed maximum Polyphony and used FM-X sounds nearly as much as AWM2, therefore the Montage gives you 128 + 128 (via 2 DSP processors) vs the MODX's 128 + 64 (off the same 1 DSP processor)
- if you wanted to have a lot of libraries & your own wave file samples loaded and ready to go in User memory, whereby they amount to more than 1GB in size, then the Montage would have more value. The MODX has 1GB of User memory, whereas the Montage has 1.75GB. (again for piano enthusiasts, that adds up really fast, making the Montage far more valuable)
- if organs were important and you wanted more physical draw bar controls available, the Montage would provide more value as it has 8 sliders vs MODX only has 4
- if having more controls for playing live (knobs/sliders), then the Montage again has 8 sliders & 8 knobs, vs MODX's 4 & 4
- if you value having Aftertouch functionality in a synth, then the Montage is going to more value
- there is also much internal functionality where the Montage's limit is 8 and the MODX's limit is 4
- if you valued changing Programs & Scenes within the programs and didn't want to change much via the touch screen, especially when playing live, then the Montage has an easier route to changing 8 Scenes & has Live Set buttons, that makes changing Performances, Patterns, Banks/Sets, etc. via the touch of physical buttons with no need to ever touch the Screen
- if you value DAW integration & other inter-connectivity with ease, as well as access to SampleRobot, etc., then the Montage would provide this functionality
- if you value having the latest functionality/new features via OS Updates as soon as they have been released without having to wait months for it, then the Montage would give you this ability
- if you needed the highest quality inputs/outputs with the maximum amount of headroom to avoid loss of quality running close to highest levels, then the Montage would provide this to you
- if you value the quality of the keybed, then the Montage has the better quality keys with less issues overall

For many people, these types of added value listed above don't hold as much value as they do to others, thereby making the MODX the clear winner due to its price and weight! I am guessing that these don't hold enough weight for your personal preference either to justify a Montage, and I totally respect that.
I appreciate all the points ! I will always be a 2 keyboard musician.

Many of the Montage strengths are in the Kronos.

Thus MODX is attractive as my 2nd board.
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:24 am

GregC wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:06 am
I appreciate all the points ! I will always be a 2 keyboard musician.

Many of the Montage strengths are in the Kronos.

Thus MODX is attractive as my 2nd board.
I used to have 2 synths for a while many years back. I had a Korg Polysix as my main front synth and a Roland SH-101 with hand-grip & shoulder strap. I looked forward to those few songs that I could go out and do a solo on the Roland! :D

Yeah, I studied the Kronos pretty closely when deciding what to buy...I think we conversed a bit on the Kronos Forum..!?
The Kronos was quite attractive and I like the variety of pianos. Having that plus the MODX is a sweet setup, and it appears that it's becoming quite a common setup for many keyboard players!

It will be very interesting to see what Korg's next big move is...

Knowing Yamaha's software based roadmap, I think they always have new features & enhancements for the Montage & MODX, at the ready, so that if Roland comes out with a new Fantom Synth, Yamaha can shortly thereafter come out with new enhancements/features with the existing synths + add a new colour to the mix (White in this case), with some new Performances to show off the new features.

I'm guessing that Korg is going to come out with something big in the new year, and Yamaha are going to follow it shortly thereafter with an OS Update containing a new VA engine(or something fairly big), new effects, Performances, and another colour... For someone who has a MODX or Montage, and buys the new Roland Fantom or the next Korg, it's a win win, because you end up getting an enhanced version of your MODX/Montage synth shortly thereafter. It's a smart way for Yamaha to compete, but it also helps continue to push Korg, Roland, Nord, etc. to release new better enhanced synths.
It will be interesting to see if Korg or Roland start providing enhancements/features via OS updates for their new Synths, and also will they follow the MODX & have econo option of their new flagship synth that contains most of the sounds/features, but at a reduced cost..!?
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:37 am

pologuy wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 8:10 pm
What about the free Yamaha Bosendorfer Imperial download...?

Have you ever heard the Ravenscroft 275 VST...?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kV4__tns0Q
Have you checked out Native Instruments - The Grandeur VST? I think it rivals the Ravenscroft 275...
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by Fleer » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:39 am

Okay. Third time’s a charm. I hope.
Got a MODX8, returned it.
Got a MODX6, returned it.
Ordered a MODX7 now.
We’ll see.
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by GregC » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:53 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:24 am
GregC wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:06 am
I appreciate all the points ! I will always be a 2 keyboard musician.

Many of the Montage strengths are in the Kronos.

Thus MODX is attractive as my 2nd board.

Yeah, I studied the Kronos pretty closely when deciding what to buy...I think we conversed a bit on the Kronos Forum..!?
The Kronos was quite attractive and I like the variety of pianos. Having that plus the MODX is a sweet setup, and it appears that it's becoming quite a common setup for many keyboard players!

It will be very interesting to see what Korg's next big move is...

yes, we did converse about Kronos prior to your Montage purchase.

I like competition. Its been said, the big 3 have a good idea when either is going to make a move into the +$3000 keyboard niche.
Yamaha pushed it with Montage/MODX. I think Roland was aggressive with Fantom.

I am watching to see if Korg is pushing to help clear out the retail channel of Kronos. That will be a signal of a new expensive
model. Reason why is that when a new expensive Korg board is announced, sales of the prior model slow. And its not easy making money selling these expensive boards, thus I think Korg coordinates the new product transition with their country distributors and retail outlets.
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by vertig0spin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:41 pm

GregC wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:53 pm
yes, we did converse about Kronos prior to your Montage purchase.

I am watching to see if Korg is pushing to help clear out the retail channel of Kronos. That will be a signal of a new expensive
model. Reason why is that when a new expensive Korg board is announced, sales of the prior model slow. And its not easy making money selling these expensive boards, thus I think Korg coordinates the new product transition with their country distributors and retail outlets.
Now's the time for Korg to clear the retail channels with huge Black Friday sales. If that's not happening, then they are likely not ready with whatever their new expensive board will be...
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by pologuy » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:09 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:37 am

Have you checked out Native Instruments - The Grandeur VST? I think it rivals the Ravenscroft 275...
I thought The Grandeur was a recording of an older Steinway...?
vertig0spin wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:25 pm

Yes and Yes. To my ears the CFX on the Montage is better & more realistic as an authentic acoustic grand.
Bosendorfer is great, very well done, and I love the sound of the Ravenscroft 275 also...heard them both many times on many different vids, plus I already have/play the Bosendorfer on my Montage, but it's not even close to the CFX on the Montage IMHO!
So you are comparing what you heard in a video, YouTube, to the actual instrument, CFX on the Montage...?
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Re: MODX8 for £989 in Black Friday deal

Unread post by GregC » Tue Dec 03, 2019 7:06 pm

vertig0spin wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 5:41 pm
GregC wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:53 pm
yes, we did converse about Kronos prior to your Montage purchase.

I am watching to see if Korg is pushing to help clear out the retail channel of Kronos. That will be a signal of a new expensive
model. Reason why is that when a new expensive Korg board is announced, sales of the prior model slow. And its not easy making money selling these expensive boards, thus I think Korg coordinates the new product transition with their country distributors and retail outlets.
Now's the time for Korg to clear the retail channels with huge Black Friday sales. If that's not happening, then they are likely not ready with whatever their new expensive board will be...
I am curious, because I think clearing the retail channel is a priority for new product transition. No one has #'s, all we have is eBay as a vague measure.
It will be interesting if Korg extends the $500 reduction beyond today for new Kronos. I did not think $3299 US for an 88 was such a hot deal.

I paid $2975 for my 88 just 8 years ago.
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